The one witht he spoilers
16 Jul 2005 09:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
salineaDefinitly my favourite book of the serie so far.
I am quite glad that JKR seems to share my love for the Family Black as a whole, especially :
Chapter 2 : Cissy and Bella. How very gorgeous.
Phineas who we kept seeing as well.
Finally making me like and find interesting the only Black spawn I didn't like so far. That's Draco, in case you couldn't guess.
R. A. B. who is obviously Regulus Black and I think that's the one I'm the most exhilarated about, given that Regulus is my favourite backstory character. The coincidence of telling us Regulus had a few days of running before he was killed, and the formulation on the message leaves no doubt to me.
I found myself liking Slughorn a great deal. He's so.... slugish, and slimey, and flamboyantly cowardly. I really like him as a Slytherins that Harry doesn't actually hate. Oh, and the fact he was so fond of Lily is really cute. It's very funny how the one character who's the first to tell Harry a lot about his mother would be... that kind of character.
Talking about slimey character, I find muself liking Mundungdus even more than I did before. Very enjoyable scum, he is.
Lastly, about Snape. Oh, does anybody actually believes he wasn't asked by Dumbledore to kill him (both to save his life and to preserve Draco) ?
After the conversation that Hagrid witnessed where Snape argues he didn't want to do something ?
After the whole book being named after Snape ?
After the whole deal being so that Snape could teach Harry a lot ? (such a beautiful irony)
After the fact this is happening in tome 6, and not in, you know, tome 7 where it would have been so much more dramatic ?
Oh well, if you want to.
Ship wise. I'm glad for the Ron/Hermione. Harry/Ginny, errr, whatever. I actually liked Ginny a great deal in that book, but it did came out of the blue. Oh well, I don't care much. Remus/Tonks.... meh. Very meh. Not that I dislike Tonks, but.... oh well, I hope she turns evil, she would be the most fun character to turn treator at the last moment (and i thought so before this book in case you wonder)
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Date: 16 July 2005 07:44 pm (UTC)Some people just do not get that the world isn't black and white. Look at the LotR fandom--so many people bash Boromir for being human and tempted, and/or don't see that he died so he could be redeemed. I foresee a similar development with poor Severus.
Evil!Tonks would be entertaining. Actually, I have a theory (which is mine) that she feels a)totaly miserable that Sirius is dead, b)betrayed/left out/hurt because Sirius willed all his property to Harry over her and her mother, his only decent living relatives, and c)desperately lonely. So, she decides that she's going to take her inheritance in the form of Remus. It's just a big "Fuck you!" to Sirius. Sooner or later, they'll calm down and Tonks will go find a nice girl.
(My Remus-slasher is showing, isn't it? Oh, well.)
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Date: 16 July 2005 07:55 pm (UTC)Yeah I suppose some people have trouble with non manicheistic interpretation. Then again, anti heros are always so popular in every fandoms. I mean, Snape has always been one of the most worshipped character of HP already. And I'm sure that, even foolishly believing he actually betrayed, there'll still be some people loving it. He's painted as complex enough for that.
I didn't mention it, but I actually also really love what she did with Tom Riddle, deepening his backstory. I found myself liking Merope a lot. And Tom was always so much more interesting than Voldemort. I think the horcruxes plot fits perfectly.
Haha ! I like your Tonk theory. Though, you know I like Snupin much better than Sirius/Remus. ^^
What strucks me in that book was how often Harry was comparing Tonks' appearance to Draco's. Given that Draco was threatened into that mission by the Death Eater at the time, those parallelism are very ominous.
Oh, and i'm also now very scared of (one sided) Snape/Lily or Snape/Narcissa being made canon. That would suck. Snape is the one character I can see as nothing but gay, gay, gay. Not bisexual (like Remus or Sirius) not nothing, just gay. I would be insanely grateful if JKR keeps on her "Snape in love ? Eeeewwww" attitude as it leaves the fanficcers free to do whatever they want.
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:05 pm (UTC)I'm not so scared of people hating Severus as I am of them loving him wrongly.
My Tonks theory is really just a goof theory, along with ones where, well, she uses her Metamorphmagus powers for personal enjoyment, or where...hmm, what if she was so scared of something she attached herself to Remus? And if Remus accepted her because Severus had gone off again, apparently with the Death Eaters? That would make sense.
See, I don't even see Bi!Remus. He's just. So. Gay. I can't get over that. It's indelibly inscribed on my brain. Snape, actually, I can see as 'It's irrelevant, because I've only ever wanted one person in my life'-sexual. Snape/Narcissa would suck so badly. Scenes between a man and a woman are not always about Teh Sex.
I'm more scared for the future of Snupin than I am for Sirius/Remus. I mean, Sirius is dead, gods rest his soul (though it's not likely). Anything that happened there happened, past tense, and is over one way or another. Snupin, though, I've always preferred only really becoming a relationship post-War, and now what are we to do? I've always seen Sirius/Remus as the pairing of the past, and Severus/Remus as the pairing of the future. It's the latter that's in danger.
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:10 pm (UTC)Maybe she fell prey to a moment of plot-stupidity.
Skuld's thoughts as a fan (and a slasher)
- Harry/Draco is still possible! W00T!
- breaking up Sirius/Remus...booo
- I totally thought Tonks was evil too, but I guess JKR just likes throwing us for curves
- The HP/SS fans are probably going wild cause the book is essentially called "Harry and Snape."
and HA! DUMBLEDORE DIES.
For one, the intarweb was not feeding me lies, and those pictures I saw were actually true. Huh, whaddya know?
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 16 July 2005 08:25 pm (UTC)Of course it might be because Hermione is just an Utena fan. Yeah, I'm going to go with that.
- Harry/Draco is still possible! W00T!
It's not possible, it's like, made the new official subextual slash pairing of the serie, what with the amount of time Harry spent OBSESSING over Draco and the time Draco spent angsting. I'm very amused.
- breaking up Sirius/Remus...booo
Well, not really. As said
I totally thought Tonks was evil too, but I guess JKR just likes throwing us for curves
There's one book left for that. It would be very ironic if Draco was the Black descendant to actually fight for the order and Tonks the one to betray it at the end. The symetry would be lovely.
The HP/SS fans are probably going wild cause the book is essentially called "Harry and Snape."
XDDDDD yeah, they would. So far from what I saw of Snarry shippers though, is grief and denial. You'd think they were worried about Snape's integrity(I'm not)
HA! DUMBLEDORE DIES.
Yeah, I cheered. Still don't like the old manipulative shmuck.
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:30 pm (UTC)She totally was. I was cracking up. XD *grin* Now if only she'd pick up a sword and take a liking to roses...
t's not possible, it's like, made the new official subextual slash pairing of the series,
WORD UP. I've always had a fondness for rival slash, and I'm glad that Draco actually gained another dimension in this book...yay. Now he's a two-dimensional character, just like all the rest of JKR's characters with the exception of Snape.
James/Severus/Lily OT3!
SiriusxRemus being in the past is unadultured. SnapexLupin however, my OTP, is almost doomed *sobs*
Yeah, that's true, but I had always pinned Remus as the type to never take on another mate, because wolves mate for life. I figured werewolves might too. :/ Boo.
And yeah, Snape/Lupin doesn't look like it's going to happen. Don't worry dear, there's always fanfic. I want to go and gorge myself on some James/Severus...
Oh wait, there is none. Curses.
So far from what I saw of Snarry shippers though, is grief and denial.
The ones in Japan are different. >_> I have seen more HP/SS smut than I can shake a stick at. And hey, as long as there is fulfillment after the grief and denial, it's all good to me. X3 HP/SS is no fun without a little angst. (*coughs in the general direction of James/Severus*)
Yeah, I cheered. Still don't like the old manipulative shmuck.
I dunno, I'm still kind of fond of Dumbledore. I suspect I cheered because the interweb wasn't lying after all...for once.
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:32 pm (UTC)It is *sighs with delight*
I'm not so scared of people hating Severus as I am of them loving him wrongly.
How so ?
See, I don't even see Bi!Remus. He's just. So. Gay.
lol, i don't know. I kind of see Remus as being utterly shameless about sex (I know, fanon influenced) and I could see him as being very opportunistic about who he'd shag or not.
I was also rather vaguely fond of MoodyxTonks, so double disapointment.
Snape, actually, I can see as 'It's irrelevant, because I've only ever wanted one person in my life'-sexual.
Hmmmm, I don't know. I'd have a hard time seeing Snape as being that self-conciously romantic about his feelings. He's not a sentimantal man, Snape is, and though he does have a paper-thin temper and deeply passionate reactions to things, he doesn't like that fact about himself and would want to deny it as much as he could.
Snape/Narcissa would suck so badly. Scenes between a man and a woman are not always about Teh Sex.
Indeed. Actually that's why I would so much hate Snape/Lily. It would cheapen Snape's moral choice to join the OotP so much. (or to join the Death Eater in the first place as some people theorized too). That's not the kind of decisions people take on a broken heart whim, no matter how romantic it might sounds.
I've always seen Sirius/Remus as the pairing of the past, and Severus/Remus as the pairing of the future. It's the latter that's in danger.
I agree totally. I'm extremely saddened by that. Besides, it's now extremely likely she'll kill Snape off in the last book. Grrrr I hate "redeeming sacrifice of the morally ambiguous and complex character" clichee, but it's so prevalent and I'm not sure JKR won't go for it.
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:44 pm (UTC)For the benefit of the nonexistent audience, I would just like to note that Remus's sex partner is never going to end up with hickeys or bite marks, for obvious reasons. (I actually have very little definite opinion on Remus's sexual inclination or lack thereof.)
though he does have a paper-thin temper and deeply passionate reactions to things, he doesn't like that fact about himself and would want to deny it as much as he could.
I agree completely. However, I don't necessarily have to avoid noticing his temper, his passionate reactions, or his tendency to love one person obsessively, simply because he refuses to. I think Severus would consider himself asexual, and the denial stage might be very persistent.
Wait, people say Severus joined the Order because of Lily? Um, no! Much more important elements in his decision than chasing a pretty girl, or getting revenge for the death of a pretty girl, either. There were more important things going on at the time. The only woman whose death could have been single-handedly responsible for Severus switching sides is his mother. If Death Eaters killed her, I can see him wanting revenge. For love? No.
I'm thinking of ways to break up Remus/Tonks as painlessly as possible. I think the one where she starts recognizing the features Remus likes her to shift into best as Severus's. That would do it. Or, y'know, she could die, or betray him, or betray him then die, or run off with Moody, thereby making us both very happy, or he could realise that he had just been lonely, or...See? Not that bad. If Severus does die, though, that could be the clincher. Well, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it!
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Date: 16 July 2005 08:44 pm (UTC)You know, I wanted to read a crossover of this before that, so yeah, I was snickering. It would be much fun, I agree.
WORD UP. I've always had a fondness for rival slash, and I'm glad that Draco actually gained another dimension in this book...yay. Now he's a two-dimensional character, just like all the rest of JKR's characters with the exception of Snape.
I always thought HarryxDraco made for rather endearing melodramatic sometime good trash reading. And you meant tridimensional right ?
Snape is the most complex and compelling character of the whole cast, point. He's the only truly unique thing of those books. ... and he's not even my favourite character XD
James/Severus/Lily OT3!
Eeeep *falls over* That's funny.
Yeah, that's true, but I had always pinned Remus as the type to never take on another mate, because wolves mate for life. I figured werewolves might too. :/ Boo.
Werewolves mate for life, God I hate that bit of fanon. I don't know, I never like the idea of just laying down to die just because the love of your life is over. Second chances and mature romance is a lovely thing (i guess that's why I love Snupin so much)
And yeah, Snape/Lupin doesn't look like it's going to happen. Don't worry dear, there's always fanfic. I want to go and gorge myself on some James/Severus...
Well, I was never expecting to see in canon. Just asking for JKR not to spoil it otherwise with, you know, metamorphmagus who would be so much better off with one-eyed paranoid Aurors.
Oh wait, there is none. Curses.
Actually I read a Snarry recently that had JamesxSeverus in the background. I mean, it's the HP fandom and Snape is slashed with everything that moves and breathes. Or not even that.
The ones in Japan are different. >_> I have seen more HP/SS smut than I can shake a stick at. And hey, as long as there is fulfillment after the grief and denial, it's all good to me. X3 HP/SS is no fun without a little angst. (*coughs in the general direction of James/Severus*)
Point. I hate people who try to write sappy stories to that kind of pairing. I swear...
I love the Japanese fandom culture, but that's nothing new.
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Date: 16 July 2005 09:07 pm (UTC)Hmmm. I see what you mean. Yeah well, there'll always been plenty of bad writers in that fandom. Thankfully, they'll still be many good ones as well.
For the benefit of the nonexistent audience, I would just like to note that Remus's sex partner is never going to end up with hickeys or bite marks, for obvious reasons. (I actually have very little definite opinion on Remus's sexual inclination or lack thereof.)
Point. That new bit of information is certainly going to errr, tame things over at
I agree completely. However, I don't necessarily have to avoid noticing his temper, his passionate reactions, or his tendency to love one person obsessively, simply because he refuses to. I think Severus would consider himself asexual, and the denial stage might be very persistent.
Aah. I see. Yeah, that works.
Wait, people say Severus joined the Order because of Lily? Um, no! Much more important elements in his decision than chasing a pretty girl, or getting revenge for the death of a pretty girl, either.
I KNOW ! So stupid (appologies to anyone on my flist who might share the theory :p)
There were more important things going on at the time. The only woman whose death could have been single-handedly responsible for Severus switching sides is his mother. If Death Eaters killed her, I can see him wanting revenge. For love? No.
Hehehe, yeah I could see that. Severus, as a mommie's boy, and now it's canon. Why must all the characters I love be that ? XDDD
I'm thinking of ways to break up Remus/Tonks as painlessly as possible.
But pain is good ! ^^
^I think the one where she starts recognizing the features Remus likes her to shift into best as Severus's. That would do it. Or, y'know, she could die, or betray him, or betray him then die, or run off with Moody, thereby making us both very happy, or he could realise that he had just been lonely, or...See?
Oh, I'm sure there's ways. And time to explore them ^^ I so love fanfics ♥
Well, we'll burn that bridge when we come to it!
point.
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Date: 17 July 2005 11:54 am (UTC)I always thought HarryxDraco made for rather endearing melodramatic sometime good trash reading.
It does! :D Doesn't all fanfic fall under the category of "rather endearing melodramatic sometime good trash?" >_> Or maybe judging by the vast amount of total shit out there I'd but "rarely" in there instead of "sometime." =_=;; *nope, not bitter. No bitterness here.*
And you meant tridimensional right ?
Nope. I meant what I said, "two-dimensional." Every single one of JKR's characters is a bland, minimally characterized "lick & stick" archetype. Hell, Draco was unidimensional before this book came along. Almost every single one can be described in some sort of three letter catchphrase (ie: "angsty teenage hero" or "trusting best friend" or "the smart girl") that we can all universally understand from just their label alone, except Severus Snape. He is the only true character in the entire series.
But hey, nobody ever said that JKR was a good writer. Her works are certainly far from Pulitzer Prize literature. If viewed as fanfiction, it's pretty good, though I've certainly read better. The important thing is that she is an amazing storyteller, and she knows how to spin tales for our imaginations. She's good at throwing us plot twists and entertaining us. So I can't complain too much. X3
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Date: 17 July 2005 10:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 18 July 2005 07:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 19 July 2005 06:50 am (UTC)For me, it does not necessarily have to stand in the way for R/S either.
I never got the whole Tonks-hate stuff I've seen from a lot of places. Like the Ron-hate, it definitely surprised me.
My impression about the "romances", or ships ;), is that they felt rushed, all of them, with the possible exception of Hermione/Ron. On the other hand, the book was racing ahead at a million km an hour, so perhaps it was just one of those things. IMHO, it felt like things had been cut out by the editor. I don't mind the Harry/Ginny pairing (I mind few pairings, and this has been foreshadowed since CoS) but it felt like it just happened really quickly. Perhaps there will be more depth added to it in the next book. I somehow doubt Ginny is the sort of girl to easily let go. ;)
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Date: 19 July 2005 07:33 am (UTC)Well, that's because it doesn't. R/S being in the past. However it does screw up with Snape/Lupin, which was my OTP, and one that's suppose to happen in the future (well, it's not only Remus/Tonks that does that, of course... and there's always ways to work around it)
As far as I'm concerned, the R/S shippers are cry-baby who apparently expected JKR to carry out a gay agenda in a children book. Sure guys.
Personnaly I was just hoping she'd keep the adult figures free of engagement so we could slash them in peace.
I never got the whole Tonks-hate stuff I've seen from a lot of places. Like the Ron-hate, it definitely surprised me.
I LIKE Tonks. Why should I hate her just because I don't like the pairing ? That's ridiculous. I didn't like the Harry/Ginny pairing as introduced in HBP either (because, well, it wasn't introduced, it was hammered clumsily.) but I did like Ginny a great deal in this book and her bitchy attitude ^^
And of course the pairings also screws up the fact that Tonks/Moody was one of the only het ship I had :p
(not to mention Tonks/Ginny and Bella/Tonks, which I'm sure I'll still want to play with)
Agree with your general assessment of the way she handled the romances. It doesn't lessen my enjoyment of the book much because that's not why I read HP, but it was slightly disapointing to see it so rushed.
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Date: 19 July 2005 10:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 19 July 2005 11:26 am (UTC)I LIKE Tonks. Why should I hate her just because I don't like the pairing ? That's ridiculous.
Loads of shippers disagree with you, check fandom_wank (http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/766664.html). ;)
Seriously though, I feel the same way. I'm not a big fan of Snarry, but that doesn't mean I go around vilifying the ship or hating the characters.
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Date: 19 July 2005 11:49 am (UTC)I do really wonder what Dumbledore's plan is, though. He's better have a very good one to be willing to sacrifice so much on that one (and he obviously refuses to share the knowledge that it was a plan with either Harry or any of the member of the Order that we've seen be told the new by Harry)
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Date: 19 July 2005 11:51 am (UTC)Do I look like a wanker to you ? :p I hate character bashing in general, remember, even when I genuinely loathe a character (say, Stannis) I don't spend hours spilling my bile against them.
... Frankly this last book has made Snarry a lot more interesting in my mind ^^
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Date: 19 July 2005 12:12 pm (UTC)Yes, I suppose, but in HP before, I mostly read fics which features the adults, not the kids, with a whole different mood than the teenage angst I associate with H/D.
Nope. I meant what I said, "two-dimensional." Every single one of JKR's characters is a bland, minimally characterized "lick & stick" archetype.
She does a lot of caricatures but she also manage to picture a lot of her characters as rather more complex and endearing than she's sometimes given credits, I think.
Hell, Draco was unidimensional before this book came along. Almost every single one can be described in some sort of three letter catchphrase (ie: "angsty teenage hero" or "trusting best friend" or "the smart girl") that we can all universally understand from just their label alone, except Severus Snape. He is the only true character in the entire series.
I have to agree with that last assessment, but I think she's writes slightly more complex characters than that. "the smart girl" doesn't encompass Hermione's streak of ruthlessness for exemple.
But hey, nobody ever said that JKR was a good writer. Her works are certainly far from Pulitzer Prize literature. If viewed as fanfiction, it's pretty good, though I've certainly read better. The important thing is that she is an amazing storyteller, and she knows how to spin tales for our imaginations. She's good at throwing us plot twists and entertaining us. So I can't complain too much. X3
Yes, yes, yes. I agree, she's a storyteller, not a good writer. She's not even half as good as a lot of fantasy writers I love better, butwhose works I don't read fanfics for. ^^
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Date: 19 July 2005 12:21 pm (UTC)I'm hoping the portrait might explain Harry the reason so he won't go and take revenge and get his hands dirty.
Or it's a plot hole? ^^UUU It's not like Rowling is not notorious for that.
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Date: 19 July 2005 01:29 pm (UTC)However all the clues point to Dumbledore planning for his own death since he came to fetch Harry from the Dursleys. He told Harry everything he knew about Voldemort to make sure he'll be able to take charge of that after his death. However, all year long he's refused to tell Harry why he trusted Snape so much.
That makes sense, given Harry's connection to Voldemort and the fact Harry is still not able to use Occlumensy properly, he's the last person he'd give that kind of info to. However there has to be, either :
- one person he's told about the plan, and who can eventualy keep ties with Snape to receive informations about the DEs plans
- something or somewhere where he deposited that knowledge so that Harry or other members of the OotP can act upon it in due time
Otherwise they gambled everything only so as to save Draco, Snape's life, and so as to have Snape is a position of trust to strike at an unknown moment, which seems very fragile a plan.
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Date: 19 July 2005 01:40 pm (UTC)Besides, there's the fact of the nature of the Vow. If Snape didn't kill Dumbledore, he would've drop dead. I'm suspecting there are things Snape has to do for Dumbledore, so it was priority the one who stood alive would be Severus.
I was angry at Snape at the moment, yeah, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and think he's still playing for both teams, and not just for one. Otherwise it'd suck.
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Date: 19 July 2005 01:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 19 July 2005 02:51 pm (UTC)Hah, we agree on Stannis. *joins in a bit of silent and non-attention seeking Stannis loathing*
Regarding Snarry, you think? Well, at least there are possibilities for the future, I grant you.
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Date: 19 July 2005 04:50 pm (UTC)Regarding Snarry, you think? Well, at least there are possibilities for the future, I grant you.
I think Snape/Harry/Draco is my new favourite triangle. Granted, Harry/Tom/Ginny is still going strong...