Once a Stranger

You comments about Mary Sues and Minimaxers make me think. I tend to think "self insert" is a bit too broad a definition of Mary Sue; I define her as a character breaks the canon--she may steal the spotlight from canon characters, but it's usually because she has qualities that violate the constraints of the universe she's being written into. A concrete example: Harry Potter canon doesn't allow for spells that raise the dead, but an HP MS might manage to come back from the dead (or bringing someone else back through her tragic self-sacrifice).

I'm not sure it's the best exemple because I can certainly think of a lot of bringing-someone-from-death story in the HP fandom that do not involve a Mary Sue; but yeah I see what you mean : A Mary Sue breaks too much the implicite rules of a setting/genre/narrative. It's a very good definition. And it allows for paralelism with the Powergamer who often cheats with spirit the rules, or at least bends them.

But even if there weren't those sorts of constraints, I think the majority of games wouldn't create Mary Sue PCs just because they wouldn't be much fun to play in an actual game. "Let's see...I rolled a negative number...and that's still a critical hit. Yay." This is the same reason most writers don't write MSs--because ultimately realistic character are more fun to write about.
You'd be surprised how many players seem to want exactly that ^^ but yeah that's also a rather immature impulse that passes with good players.

So it's definately the minimaxers who most closely model the spirit of Mary Suism compared to regular gamers--it's all about the coolness of the character and the focus on him rather than considerations about the plot or universe or your fellow players
Agreeing again ! And very well said :)
I was trying to draw the parallel between PCs in general with Mary Sues because I think it's an idea that brings out some interesting content to the "are there good Mary Sues ?" discussion.
In many ways, RPGs is a milieu much more welcoming for people wishing to Mary Sue without being too extravagant about it, and eventually will nudge them in the good direction without it necessarly jarring against the context of the game too much.
Ah, I don't express myself well, let's say :
If you brought a Mary Sue out of a fanfic to make her as a character in a RPG, you'd need to be a powergamer to make it work.
However, if you brought a regular PC out of a RPG to write them in a fanfic, I'm certain that would at least push the Mary Sue limit test.

Thanks for your comment ^^