Made up meme

[salinea]

So mithrigil had this meme about reccing new fandoms by pointing to one's fanworks. However I don't really like reading fanfics for fandom I don't know yet, so I don't really want to do it this way, however I do love reccing stuff so here's how we do it :

Give me three things you like : could be a medium, could be character types, kinds of settings, themes or any other kind of tropes you can think of; and I'll rec you a work.

I'm mostly knowledgeable in SFF books, manga, tabletop RPG, some anime and TV series and a few comics & BD so don't ask me for video game recs!! Existence of active fandom not garanteed (unless, I guess, you want to name it as one of the criteria!)

Go!

Comments

[anenko.livejournal.com]

Partners. Competent women. Fantasy.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "partners"?

[hamsterwoman]

This is an awesome meme!

How about: complex villains who make plausible heroes in their own eyes; culture-clash/combo settings or themes where all of the clashing/combined cultures are well thought out and truly different from each other (the cultures in question can be real world or purely imagined); language geekery

(This is probably way too specific, so any one of the three would be a good basis for a rec, but the more the better, of course!)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

well, you've read Kushiel already, so that's one I can't use. I think you've read the Year of Rice and Salt too, have you not?

River of Gods by Ian McDonald is a Hard SF book set in India. There's a lot of cultural mesh in several ways (India's culture and also non Indian characters in the setting as well). There's a lot of Indian terms for the language geekery. I don't really remember many details about the villains though, but the plot was very complex. I talk more about it here.

Hal Duncan's Vellum. It's the first part of a duology and i haven't read the second. One of the villain is Metatron/Enki and he's fascinating. The writer does a very complex thing with storytelling, very deconstructured, and it involves a lot of myth references and retelling in a way that makes a complex cultural tapestry. He does a lot of fun thing with language in terms of voice as well. I described it here.

Celia Friedman's In Conquest Born is great Sci-Fi in terms of culture clash and fascinating villains, and does some very wonderful things with language well. Just a wonderfully well described and fascinating culture, despite the fact it's a culture we should entirely revile.

I haven't finished reading that cycle either, but CJ Cherryh's Foreigner. series is Sci Fi about humans stranded on a planet where aliens inhabit. The main character is a translator and diplomat and there's a lot of focus on the difficulty to translate alien concepts, the impossibility thereof, and culture clashes in general. Otherwise it's got lots of intrigue and some action. No great villains that I can remember though. It's got something like 7 books out so far...

[anenko.livejournal.com]

Work-based friendship. Think Mulder and Scully.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

They Fight Crime? :) More two people based or does that count groups?

CJ Cherry's Gate of Ivrel series could interest you. It's got an extremely powerful woman and a banished warrior who swears loyalty to her as main characters, and their relationship is great. It's set on a medieval world (to start with) but the fantasy elements are really tech-based.

Meghan Lindholm (more well known as Robin Hobb)'s Vandian and Ki series also fits well in a more low key way. Ki's got a very no nonsense competence, and her relationship with Vandian is pretty interesting (although not entirely work related). I talk about it here and here.

Martha Wells Fall of Ile Rien could also please you. I talk about it to greater length here. The partnership element is what it's got less.

There's also the anime series Slayers, but you probably already know that?

[hamsterwoman]

Whee, thank you!

I actually haven't read Year of Rice and Salt, so I'll take that as another rec :) (I've never actually made it all the way through a book by Kim Stanley Robinson, but I was impressed with the depth and scope of his stuff. Maybe I'll like his alternate history better than regular sci-fi (I stalled somewhere in the last third of the first Mars book, I believe).)

I'd heard vague but good things about Vellum before, and have been wanting to try something by Cherryh since being impressed by a short story of hers in an a fantasy anthology, but she seems so prolific that I didn't know what to start with. River of Gods and In Conquest Born I'd never heard of before (nor do I think I've read anything by the authors). Definitely want to give them a try, though.

Thanks again, shall have to check these out!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

heh, I reviewed the Year of Rice and Salt here. I did find it easier to read than the Mars trilogy, although it's still pretty heavy. It does fascinating thing with cultures (not necessarily clash but) with a spatter of cute stuff for language. No big on villains though.

Cherryh wrote A LOT of good stuff, I've been trying to read more stuff of her recently :) she's got a sense for cultures in a way that feels very alien that I found hit a lot of my narrative SF kinks.

Celia Friedman is one of my favourite writer. Everything she's done is great, and In Conquest Born is probably the one that fits your requirement best. This Alien Shore would also be close, I think.

Hope you'll like them!

[sakanagi.livejournal.com]

This looks like fun! *Must try to think of something for it*

Let's see...well, this list could be endless, but for now I'll say: shadow archetypes, sci-fi/fantasy, and intrigue.

[mithrigil.livejournal.com]

Hm...

Social commentary. Stories-within-stories. Dorks.

[shiinabambi.livejournal.com]

Angst. Deus Angst Machina. Darkness, sadness, despair, unhappy endings. Supernatural themes (scifi, fantasy, etc) a big plus. Characters that are likable but may not always do the right thing. If it's a novel, I like me some rich, clever, pretentious prose. If anime/drama/tv series, I like some style, and some good, haunting music. I think I would watch an entire series based on excellent BGM. Lesbianism is a bonus, but far from required.

I don't like: endless shounen battles/tournaments, "OMG, he likes WHO?" things centering around schools/students (Battle Royale--and surprisingly, Fruits Basket--being exceptions, and school-age people is just fine, so long as they don't attend often), cops or cop-like people as protagonists.

[solesakuma]

Hm, books preferably. Fantasy. Snark. Good female characters. Eh... not too much angst, bitter sweetness is what I like best. Strong friendships. Good world-building. Meta-literature. Some silliness. And no, I don't want all that at the same time. XP

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

Yeah !
1) Myths, legends or fairy tales
2) Skilled characters ; clever use, combination, or opposition of talents.
3) Shifting alliances

(Peut-être que je devrais répondre en français, en fait ? ^^)

[lodessa.livejournal.com]

Mythology/astrology/tarot(or similar) themes/allusions, choices that aren't clear cut, interactions between women that aren't always about a man, shades of grey, world building, relationships that change, high stakes.

[hamsterwoman]

I read your review of Years and the idea, at least, sounds delightful -- the reincarnation parts, specifically! (It also makes me think, on the surface, anyway, of Lord of Light :). You mentioned the treatment of Jews as one of your reservations -- I find that tends to be a pet peeve of mine (like in Kushiel's Legacy and also in this series I read part of by Sarah Zettel, where a certain ethnic group was not called out as Jews but totally were Jews anyway) -- can you explain a little bit what bothered you about the portrayal in Years?

I definitely want to try to find In Conquest Born -- that sounded the most intriguing of the recs. And I do want to try to read more Cherryh (the only things I've come across were books from the middle of the series, and they had those pulpy sci-fi covers that I tend to avoid. Of course, avoiding pulpy-looking covers kept me from reading Bujold's sci-fi for years, too, so I really should get over that... :P)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

can you explain a little bit what bothered you about the portrayal in Years?
IIRC mostly they were absent beyond a couple of offshoot mentions (as victims of oppressions, and we never got any knowledge about the aftermath of that). It was annoying to me because of the way Years is structured, trying to address most everything else (actually one could be critical about the treatment of Africa too, although they get slightly more mentions) and as retelling of History without Europe. Jews play a large part of what I think of as History with Europe, whether it's in the realm of sciences, philosophy, politics etc. so the absence felt weird, especially given that the Arab world takes a large place in it, and Jewish History is also tied to the Arab world whether or not Europe is in the frame. I wonder if, in a way, KSR has a reading of Jews as "white" (something typical of Americans I'm getting the impression) and therefore intentionally excluded them from the story. It's a bit difficult to explain. I think it's one of those books which is worth reading because of its flaws though. It was just too ambitious to be perfectly good anyway, but it's thought inducing which is a good thing :)

Friedman's Jewish, btw. which I think is important to the reading of In Conquest Born (and also the Coldfire trilogy, another book of her I love), I say that because it deals with concepts of fascism and eugenics very head on.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Vellum by Hal Duncan, which I've mentioned above, does both social commentary and stories within stories. Whether I also does dorks I'm not entirely sure, but it might please you.

The Infernal Trilogy (Paradise, Purgatory, Inferno) by Mike Resnick, do both stories within stories and social commentary as well. (the Infernal trilogy does the History of Kenya, Uganda and Zimbabwe through and out of colonisation transposed in a Sci-Fi setting; and Paradise had some nice thing in terms of storytelling especially although not to the point of metaness). Still not sure about dorks.

There's also... okay, it's a weird piece of writing and I haven't read it full myself, but it's Rebecca Sean Borgstrom Hitherby Dragon. It's a blog. With stories. It's kinda Neil Gaiman like in atmosphere, and occasionally more crackful. Borgstrom is most well known as a tabletop RPG writer, so there's quite a lot of geekism for the dork. It's very involved in terms of storytelling and full of references. I can't remember if there is social commentary though. I think you might enjoy it.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... I said three! Two is too little. Four is too much. Five is right out!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

*cough* three things!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Tu connais le comics Fables? Ca parle de personnages de contes de fées qui vivent à New York, exiles de leur monde natal à cause d'un Evil Overlord qui l'a conquit. Ca correspond bien à ta demande.

Le Dit de la Terre plate de Tanith Lee, est une sublime série de 5 romans à l'ambiance conte de fée assez sombre.

Princess Kaguya est un manga dont le point de départ est un conte de fée japonais. Là dessus se greffe une intrigue plutôt SF et assez compliquée, mais je pense que ça pourrais te plaire aussi.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Okay, which are the three things in those?

[lodessa.livejournal.com]

Oops: Mythology/astrology/tarot(or similar) themes/allusions, choices that aren't clear cut, interactions between women that aren't always about a man.

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

Je ne connais que Princesse Kaguya dans le lot, j'aime bien, mais ça sort vraiment trop lentement...

Merci, je vais essayer les autres ! (J'ai lu des réécritures de contes de Tanith Lee, et un bouquin de fantasy pour ados, j'avais aimé)

[solesakuma]

Sorry for my reading incomprehension. XP

Let me see... snark, strong friendships and metaliterature.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Celia Friedman's This Alien Shore is sci-fi with a lot of intrigue and some interesting things to say about otherness, and inner otherness that could fit your demand of Shadow Archetypes.

Tim Powers' Dinner at Deviant's Palace is set in a very fucked up post apocalyptic/cyberpunk world with some interesting shadow archetypes as well, the plot is pretty complicated as well.

The Miles Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold has a lot of intrigue in a space opera series, and deals with themes of doubles and mirrors a couple of time in interesting ways as well. (I have a long review of the series here). Mainly the main character creates an alternate identity for himself so he can fulfils his dream of being a military leader. Later on that character has a clone, who could be seen as a shadow archetype as well, then becomes his own person, then develops his own set of shadow archetypes (!!). It's a very good series too.

[sakanagi.livejournal.com]

Oh, those all sound great. I'll definitely take a look at all of them. *happiness*

[anenko.livejournal.com]

Yeah, they fight crime :) I usually think of partners as two people, although they can act as part of a larger group.

Thank you for the recs; they all sound very interesting.

[dizilla.livejournal.com]

Ooh, mind if I snag this to do sometime in the near future? =D


Snarky or just-as-strong Heroine, Hero with some type of tragic/dark past eating him up still, not High fantasy.

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

Je suis lente, je viens de lirele tome 1 de Fables, j'aime beaucoup. ^^
*va acheter le tome 2 cet après-midi, si elle le trouve*