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[personal profile] salinea
(in case anyone wonders, this is inspired by several people's essays here, here and here)

As often in such cases, people are trying to analyze things along a paradigm that directly opposes religion to technology. *picture me wincing*

I'm not going to try to define what I mean by religion, I'm going to avoid the term altogether.


Actually there's quite a few rituals and ritualistic behaviours being part of the WW culture. And, Voldemort's resurection in GoF aside, quite a few of them involve magic.

We haven't seen Fidelius casted on screen but there's a feeling of ritual about it. The Unbreakable Vow casting is definitly a ritual as well. They're both very legalist kind of rituals. But then again law and justice is often very ritualized, isn't it ?

I think one of the thing I find interesting in both those spells is the attribution of roles to specific people. The Secret Keeper in case of Fidelius, and the Binder in the Unbreakable Vow. A tierce person who serves as catalyst the whole point of the spell and onto which rests its success and failure. A witness.

Witness is another classical key concept to the form of Magical Duel we're introduced to in CoS. Now duels by nature are rituals. It involves specific behaviours, limits, and serves to settle wrongs of a personnal nature. Again, a very legalist kind of ritual.

Another very important ritual to both the WW and the HP fandom is the Sorting Ceremony.
The Houses themselves are ripe with symbolical meanings which is often used (and overused) by the HP fandom. The colours, animals, virtues and flaws associated by each House, the belonging to a community aspect, and the formalization of relationships between specific Houses (like the Slytherin vs Gryffindor rivalry oft mentionned in fanon if not canon) are all elements that makes me want to talk of it as an rite of passage.
The Sorting Ceremony of course resides not on specific actions to be done by the new student, but on the decision of a supposedly omnicient mystical hat, deposit of the wisdom of mythical founders.

Likewise the Tri-Wizard tournament rested on the judgement of another mystical object : the Goblet of Fire. And added the idea of magically binding contract for another bit of legalist ritual fun. In itself the GoF is a symbolical object, underlined metaphorically by the cauldron into which Voldemort is resurected and the Champion and metatextually by references to the Graal and the Cauldron of Dagda.
Like the Sorting Hat, it's a relic, an object charged with history and intent as a result of it, one that is trusted implicitely. One that judges and chooses people.

All sorts of sports and tests of course can be again seen as ritualized. The Tri-Wizard tournament's three tasks certainly are. Quidditch is also. But another interesting case is the different tests made in obstacle to the Philosopher's Stone. The way that Harry passed them, testing specific qualities and types of knowledge each time, the progressive discarding of his friends as they helped him, until he's faced to the Mirror of Erised and Quirrelmort is a whole sequence ripe with symbolical meaning and mythological resonnance which makes it another interesting rite of passage. Of course this is not actually a ritual within the Wizarding culture, but a metatextual one.

Date: 12 January 2006 12:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kethlenda.livejournal.com
Really interesting essay. For all that the spells in HP seem to be instant and sort of mechanical (if you swish the wand right, it will work), the spells for the most important life passages and contracts are actually very complex and ritualistic. *nods*

Date: 12 January 2006 01:20 pm (UTC)
ext_2023: (you know who blind date)
From: [identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com
Thanks, I'm glad you liked it ^^

Even the spells have ritual elements. The fact of practising a specific gesture, synchronized with a specific wording (especially in ancient languages and performative words) and sometimes a specific state of mind (concentration in general, memories for Patronus, hatred for Crucio etc)
are all elements important to define a ritual even if they don't fit with a very elaborate image of ceremonial magic. That doesn't mean we can't also have a technological interpretation of magic :) but a ritualist one isn't altogether to remove.

Date: 12 January 2006 01:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] regan-v.livejournal.com
*slaps forehead*

Oh, you're quite right! The Fidelius, Unbreakable Vow, and others you cite are also rituals. I should have mentioned them, in my own essay.

I quite liked this, btw. Thank you!

Date: 12 January 2006 02:52 pm (UTC)
ext_2023: (blush)
From: [identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com
You were more focussed on about how ritual magic was used in fics than in canon ^^
I wanted more to add that rituals were more common than we thought in canon. Even if it wasn't what we thought as powerful, elaborate or, well, religious rituals.

I really enjoyed reading your essay by the way. I rushed to finish reading Cambiare for that purpose XD I think that kind of deeply symbolical function of magic may work very well and emotionnaly in fics. I miss the less mystical aspect of the HP world by compareason with other fantasy and urban fantasy books.

Date: 12 January 2006 05:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com
I've always thought of it in lines of technology vs magic, not religion vs techonology.

Date: 12 January 2006 06:41 pm (UTC)
ext_2023: (empty little smile)
From: [identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com
I tend to see magic as a part of religion, but people can have widely different images of what "religion" means and can be pretty touchy about the subject *shrugs*

Date: 12 January 2006 05:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelastgoodname.livejournal.com
I think I see what you're saying (but as I'm clearly not understanding [livejournal.com profile] icarusancalion's point, maybe I'm wrong here, too), but I still maintain that the rituals you're noting are based on the belief of a more-than-individual authority: the binder, or secret keeper, for instance, is not simply someone that an individual trusts to do the right thing; it's a person who has more-than-individual-authority to hold a certain type of power. That is, the power itself is inherent in the knowledge that there is power in the action. (I can see how that statement might not make much sense.) I think these acts are in fact ritual, and I think ritual is powerful; I just don't think that Rowling has thought through the implications, because she seems to be arguing for individual choice above all else, which is directly contrary to an individual subsuming themselves to the power of a ritual.

[As the tech-religion boundary crossing, it's a false dichotomy, and an unenlightening one at that.]

Date: 12 January 2006 07:20 pm (UTC)
ext_2023: (just as sane as I am)
From: [identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com
I think I see what you mean. Stop me if I get it wrong.

I think we disagree in how we define a ritual's working. You seem to have a pretty specific vision which at least involves a notion of supernature and transcendance. Thus the idea of "more than individual authority" and "magic must be worshipped". Your comments about the "individual subsumming themselves" and "collective actions" make me think you might be going at it from a Durkheim-ien (sp in english ?) perspective.
I'm surprised because here, my background which is also in anthropological studies has taught me to be less hasty in assuming how things work. Depending on situations and cultures, rituals can function in different ways and might not be as anti-individualistic as you infer.

Regardless, even if I'd agree that JKR is proning the importance of individual choice, I think she's hardly underestimating the influence of the collective. Look at the way families tend to be Sorted in the same House (with exemples being notables), look at how what House you're in is deemed important by people in general. Look at, in general, how important the thematic of family is. Individual choice might prevail, but doesn't mean that other factors can't be influential. Otherwise, why even have a Prophecy in the plot ?

Besides, Wizards might not be explicitely Christians, but their hospital is still Saint Mugus, and they still feast Christmas. I think JKR is merely as secular as lots of Western European tend to be. :)

Date: 12 January 2006 11:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelastgoodname.livejournal.com
You're right, my understanding of ritual (my understanding of a lot of things) is almost entirely functionalist (although not Functionalist), and that's something that I keep trying to intellectually break through. And I agree that there are many influential factors; I can't begin to imagine that any one might be more important than any other (technological or whatever), which is why I don't ritual offers enough of a basis for advanced magic (particularly the way Rowling has set up her world). Maybe in conjunction with other stuff, but ritual alone I don't see. I know you noted in your comment in my journal that you don't feel Rowling has offered enough detail to make an argument, but that's a primary basis for my position (although I agree with you that there isn't much).

I can't escape the distinction between collective action (say, unions, or the Order of the Phoenix), and collective ritual (if we're going with the non-religious, let's try the white coat ceremony in medical school, as if the coat itself had something to say about leaning or practicing medicine, which is patently untrue; but it makes everyone part of the same group and gives cohesion: it makes them better than people without white coats, for the mere reason that they have the coat. That's what I mean by belief).

I also agree that the British are generally less evangelical in their beliefs than Americans, but they actually have a higher church-attendance rate than most of the rest of Western Europe. If you're arguing that Rowling is positing wizards as secular Christians, I think you're right. But St. Mungo was the descendant (grandson) of royalty, founded Glasgow, and was a 6th century man of wealth and power; his connection to the Church seems more founded his position than his piety. (Also: his name was really Kentigern, but his nickname Mungo sounds like a better option for a place of magical maladies.)

The longer I think about this, the more I think I'm just reading into those two posts things other than were originally intended.

Date: 16 January 2006 05:37 pm (UTC)
ext_2023: (bellatrix)
From: [identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com
And I agree that there are many influential factors; I can't begin to imagine that any one might be more important than any other (technological or whatever), which is why I don't ritual offers enough of a basis for advanced magic (particularly the way Rowling has set up her world). Maybe in conjunction with other stuff, but ritual alone I don't see. I know you noted in your comment in my journal that you don't feel Rowling has offered enough detail to make an argument, but that's a primary basis for my position (although I agree with you that there isn't much).

Okay, i see what you mean. You were answering about the "advanced magic" part more than anything.
Well as I said, I don't believe there's a magic system. In HP, magic is there to fulfill a purpose in the plot, to set the mood, to look weird, wonderful, funny or creepy, or to parody the Real World (TM)... but it's not an actual coherent system IMO. And yes, I agree it functions as a conjunction of several metaphores.

However, I think that Icarus was right in saying talking about ritual magic as advanced magic in that a lot of important magic to the plot (such as Voldemort's resurection, Fidelius, the Unbreakable Vow, and yes, very possibly Lily's protection to Harry) are ritualistic. Of course they are other important plot-magic which are not (the Unforgivable Curses, Occlumency and Legilimency, Pensieve usage, several potions like Polyjuice, Felix Felicis and Amortentia) but still, there's a certain number of Important and Serious Magic which are ritual because writing them as a ritual allow JKR to give them the gravity and resonnance needed to their importance to the plot.

Interesting information about St Mungos, thank you for the data ^^

As one of my friend said on her livejournal, everyone also forgets the ghost of Hufflepuff : the Fat Friar. ^^

Date: 16 January 2006 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thelastgoodname.livejournal.com
A certain number of Important and Serious Magic which are ritual because writing them as a ritual allow JKR to give them the gravity and resonance needed to their importance to the plot.

Certainly. And that's where [livejournal.com profile] regan_v started her essay, as well.

Date: 16 January 2006 10:38 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Watercolour of barn owl perched on post. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I also agree that the British are generally less evangelical in their beliefs than Americans, but they actually have a higher church-attendance rate than most of the rest of Western Europe. If you're arguing that Rowling is positing wizards as secular Christians, I think you're right.

I have this slightly crack theory that the Weasleys are Catholic, nut that's another story...

St. Mungo was the descendant (grandson) of royalty, founded Glasgow, and was a 6th century man of wealth and power; his connection to the Church seems more founded his position than his piety.

That is pretty standard for saints of that period, though....

Date: 13 January 2006 02:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] agent420.livejournal.com
I'm not sure that this directly correlates to the essays or not, but this post made me think of an observation I made a while back, namely, that most of--if not all--of the spells/rituals in Harry Potter are derived in some part from mythology and/or contemporary witchcraft. The concept of Runes, many of the ingredients in potions, the history of Wizarding world, and even the characters' names have some sort of root in modern Wicca and other forms of new-age witchcraft. Something else I find interesting is Rowling's emphasis on the Zodiac. It's hardly obvious to anyone who doesn't care to look, but the characters are very influenced by their signs (Harry=Leo, Hermione=Virgo, Ron=Aries); Harry is very driven, stubborn, proud, and a leader; Hermione is brainy, rational-minded, and a perfectionist; Ron is hard-headed, thirsty for attention, clingy, and passionate. Judging by the majickal/mythological allusions Rowling draws in the rest of the novel, I'm quite sure the characterisation and placing of birthdates was deliberate. That woman does her homework, that she does. ^^

Date: 13 January 2006 03:17 pm (UTC)
ext_2023: (alchemy is like cooking)
From: [identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com
I've noticed the Zodiac thing as well. Remus Lupin is a Pisces, Snape is Capricorn, and Draco is Gemini (I believe) as well... they all are pretty much poster children for their solar sign.

Some of the signs are very fun too, though I've found few that would be really interesting to analyze. Fenrir is an obvious one, but there's few deeper connection to draw. Remus' slightly more fun given his character. I see no correlation with Hermione (then again my knowledge is limited to Racine, maybe Shaekspeare would be a more pertinent)
All the star names are very cool and fun. So is Lucius Malfoy.

I wouldn't know about the compareason to existing witchcraft rites, of course ^^ Can you explain some ?

Date: 15 January 2006 01:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] agent420.livejournal.com
Aaah, shit. Too brain-fucked to think of any right now. I WILL hit you on AIM when I'm a little less disjointed, however. ^^

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