various and sundry, weird fandom comparison

[salinea]

Happy birthday stanayitnuh ! ♥

Sometimes Fandom really does puzzle me. But, I've been recced at quibbler_report and hogwarts_today so very much yay of the OMGBBQ-jumping-up-and-down kind.And let's not whine about the lack of comments.

Otherwise, having lots of fun discussing Remus' character here. Where I also started that Slytherins were not selfish :D

I know I tend to have a much darker interpretation of Remus than most people, and I probably go a bit too far with it, but I do think that a lot of people go overboard in the other direction (lots of fanon!Remus annoy me ^^)

Actually I could spend some time sporking fun at fanon!Remus in many ways (Saint!Lupin who is ever so good and kind and sacrificing; Bookish!Lupin who's shy and the smartest kid of his class regardless that James and Sirius were canonically just as smart or smarter; Alpha Wolf!Lupin with the super sense of smell to detect lies and horniness and who likes to bite his SO to mark his dominance - this one is more amusing than annoying - and so on ^^)

It's not of course that I think that Remus is an evil character. He has many qualities. He shows kindness to Harry and Neville, he's a very good teacher, he's courageous and selfless enough to fight in the Order despite how much the WW treats him badly.
But I do think he's got lots of failings, and I find that his failings make him much more interesting. And most of them are about how he deals with other people.

In many ways Remus reminds me of Anthy Himemiya from Shoujo Kakumei Utena, which I know is a weird parallel to make, but here.

Both Anthy and Remus are characters who are easily underestimated. They don't wear their (quite real and substantial) strength and powers on the outside. They often themselves dismiss their own ability outright. Anthy even appears right out to be a victim. Remus also often appears to be unjustly picked on. This appearance has a lot of ground in reality. Anthy is ill treated by her brother and most of the Duellists. Remus is prejudiced against because he's a werewolf. But it's also slightly biased. Both Anthy and Remus are masters of passive aggressiveness : Anthy's the one who orchestrates most of the duels (and through that a lot of the abuse she takes), Remus has lots of fun needling Snape through out PoA. But their passive aggressiveness are also a results of who they are. They both belong to a category of people who are rejected and discriminated against : Witch and Werewolf. Because of that they cannot afford to show aggressiveness or anger directly. They're not allowed to. So they keep their smiling, pleasant mask on. They use people because they don't have much choice to do otherwise. They're both very good at misdirection. They rarely lie outright, but they're very good at omitting crucial facts.

And they're of course desperate for the people who do accept them. Remus' cherishing of his friendship with the Marauders leads him to be a silent witness and a helper to their bullying of Snape and whatever other rule breaking their did in Hogwarts. That's relatively minor. However failing to report that Sirius was an Animagus and about his knowledge of the passage ways in Hogwarts while he thought Sirius was dangerous murderer because he doesn't want to disappoint Dumbledore is NOT.Anthy helps and lets her brother manipulate, use and abuse various people through out SKU, she obviously recognizes these things as wrong (she initially obviously doesn't care much about them because 1/ she's been excluded and ill treated by this society for a long time, why should they matter to her? 2/ in many cases she actively doesn't like these people, especially true for Saionji and Nanami, she softened the blow considerably for Miki which I believe she simply likes more) but do them nonetheless for the sake of her brother, because he's the most important person for her.

I think these almost fuzional relationship with the persons they care more is significant for both Anthy and Remus. Funny fact, we're told by the creators of each series, that these characters are Pisces, and that's a trait of character common to this Astrological Sign.


On another subject altogether, funny link about Pluto's demission as a planet (awww, poor Pluto XD)

ETA: Last, LJ seems to be very irregular about sending me mail notification of comments. I do receive most notifications, but if I check, I can see there's a few comments for which I've never received any. And it's been a few weeks now and I receive not late notification either, so it's starting to piss me off.

Comments

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

First of all, and for the record: I love Remus. I have a crush this big on him, he's one of my favourite characters in the books, and I spent most of my time in the HP fandom in a Remus fansite.

That said, fanon!Remus makes me cry. Because, like you say, he's got a lot of flaws. Some of them are very *big* flaws, actually, and they endanger other people around him. I think he's basically good in the sense that he tries to do the right thing and be a good person, but that doesn't always mean he succeeds.

For example, you're spot on about the passive-agressiveness. As for the things he does to be accepted... what strikes me the most about those two canon incidents is that about 20 years passed between them and he didn't change. In any case, it got worse. You can understand a teenager doing stupid things to fit in, but a grown adult? Not so much.

And there's something else that I think is important: the Shrieking Shack scene, when they're about to kill Peter. I find Remus's cold blood a lot scarier than Sirius's rage.

Then people turn him into a wimp saint who weeps every time that someone steps on a flower, and I want to bang my head against a wall.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

And there's something else that I think is important: the Shrieking Shack scene, when they're about to kill Peter. I find Remus's cold blood a lot scarier than Sirius's rage.
Oh, Remus is hardcore, one of the other things I like about him

Actually there's a poll on the DS this week about who's likely to betray Harry and i voted Remus because of that. Remus is able to kill in cold blood. I see him as a pragmatic person, he can be quite ruthless if motivated enough. If he thought he had no other choice I could see him going over to the dark side. Though I can't see him giving up on his independancy on a way, so he'd ask for good garantees ^^

what strikes me the most about those two canon incidents is that about 20 years passed between them and he didn't change.
I think he did slightly change with Sirius. In OotP he takes control of the situation during Sirius' worst outburts and speaks out.
Then there's HBP *winces* I hope we'll get some sort of good explanations about the RemusxTonks thing but we have little hope.

Aah. Weepy!Lupin. I had forgotten about him and the way he angsts over his impossible love for Sirius (who's usually unrecognizable as such in these fics as well)

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

I actually liked Remus/Tonks. (I belong to those fans who enjoy Remus/Sirius once in a while but never thought it was "so canon".) I don't think JKR handled it very well, but she's bad at writing romance in general, IMHO. But you're right, I don't think we'll get explanations. It's too minor.

Hmmm, you're right about OotP and Sirius. Remus is the more level-headed one in OotP, especially when he steps between Sirius and Molly.

I can't really see him going to the dark side, though, even if he has his own darkness. It would take a lot to convince me of that.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I didn't like RemusxTonks because I thought JKR handled it poorly. HarryxGinny was similarly badly done, but Ron/Hermione and HarryxCho were okay so I don't buy the "bad at writing romance" in general. She was particularly bad at writing romance in HBP, is all. As written, Tonks came out as a wimp, and Remus came out as patronizing and disrespectful if the reasons he gives are the real ones. So, eww x_x nothing to do with shipping them with other people, though that doesn't help.

If we assume there's going to be an unsuspected betrayal of some kind, who do you think would do it? ^^

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

I always thought that the problem with Remus's reasons was his own lack of self-esteem, not that he's being patronizing, but I see your point. He's being idiot for thinking she'll just give up because he says so. About Tonks, though... I didn't see her as wimpy at all, and it surprised me to find so many people in fandom who did. I think she had a lot of perfectly valid reasons to be depressed (not only that Remus didn't accept her, but even if that was the only thing, why shouldn't she feel bad about that?) and yet she still tried to do her job, and managed it pretty well all things considered. But I guess that's one of those things where we'll never agree. :)

I never really thought about an unsuspected betrayal, and now that you mention it, it's a lot easier for me to think of characters who wouldn't do it than those who would. Hmmm. I think that if it happens, it won't be one of the really main characters, but it can't be someone too obscure either or else we wouldn't care. Perhaps a Weasley? Fred and George seem harmless so far, but they can be very creepy sometimes. And it would be a real shock for Harry (and mostly everyone).

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

It's difficult to explain the thing about Tonks. She's a character I like and I don't like when she portrayed as weak in fics, but when you read HBP it's hard to make sense of her behaviour. If the depression was blamed on something else than the thing with Remus it would sit better (she's in a stressful situation, it's understandable that she'd have trouble with that), there's the fact that her sadness is so strongly linked to a loss of her inherent power (disempowering much?) Maybe I was never much sympathetic with characters who follow their object of love like a whipped puppy much because I remember having the same reaction to Eowyn in LotR and I was 13 when I read it ^^
I did think her outburst at the end of HBP was somewha disgraceful. She kept pushing and between DD's death and Bill's agression and the publicness of it all, it was a bit weird.

That said I still like her a lot as a character. And I love when fics make more sense of her behaviour. Sadly, I don't think that was what JKR had intended.

Oooh Fred and George are an interesting idea. They're such tricksters I could see them being unreliable.

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

The way I read it first, I understood that the thing with Remus was on top of the stressful situation, and that was why she was so depressed. But when I read HBP for the second time, I realized that most of the hints point only at the romantic thing, so I can see your point. That's one of the reasons why I don't like how Jo handled it.

But I'm glad you still like Tonks herself. I've seen too many people complaining that she's a disgrace to feminism or something, as if one fictional character was supposed to represent Jo's views on women... *sigh*

I thought of the twins because they've already done a few things that are almost cruel. Just like MWPP, they can get out of hand sometimes...

[kethlenda.livejournal.com]

Ack, I totally fail at the commenty thing. *headdesk* I went thud after I finished HT.

*squishes*

I loved the fic, hon. It was gorgeous and haunting and lkjljsakdgljsad.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Thanks ♥

Ah, you recced it = commenting to me

I was rather baffled that after it was recced I didn't get people showing up O_o Especially considering I see Editor's pick are a HUGE honour.

I got more comments in a few hours on a Peter gen drabble I haven't pimped anywhere else than my journal than on a fic I pimped on three comms and that got recced on Hogwarts_today so I'm very WTF-I don't get fandom about this.
I'll blame it on people's hatred of femslash. That one always works.

[kethlenda.livejournal.com]

Femslash, rarepairs, neither of them get enough love. Also there's sort of a general fandom apathy. *smites it*

[indigestible.livejournal.com]

Thank-you for the birthday wishes! ♥

And hoorary for getting recced! And argh, you've been writing a bunch in the past couple months and I just haven't had time to come down and read properly, which I've meant to because I always enjoy what you do with the Black family. SHAME.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Heh, I'm glad you like what I do with the Blacks they're my collective woobies <3 Take your time anyway

much *hugs* to you

[darksumomo.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the link to the photoshops protesting Pluto's demotion from full planetary status. They were a hoot!