Jews and racial categories

[salinea]

This is a subject I almost posted about a few months ago, during the latest HP racism merry-go-round (not the Christmas and antisemitism one which I was too busy being swamped under work to properly follow which is a shame because it looked pretty interesting and I missed some excellent post and could link to only one of them), and eventually didn't because I wasn't too sure of myself. Then today lodessa just polled her flist, among other things, about : "Do you consider Jewish people to be White/Caucasian?"

1,000$ question.

Now before I go further, I must give you some context on how I see things. I'm French. In France, a few weeks ago there was an attempt to pass a law to actually let people do statistic studies using ethnic categories. That law was among other things asked by anti-racism groups in order to actually measure racism and its prejudice against people. (It was of course, also asked by big compagnies which would like to be able to do market studies about products like ethnic hair care and skin scare products... but never mind that). The law was eventually rejected after being voted for being anti-constitutionnal.

Classifying people by "races" isn't being looked up very nicely in France. There's some good reasons for that. History, for one : there's this little story about the French state, circa 1939, asking Jews to sign up on list so they could be protected against Nazis, and then a few month later this same list being used to gather up Jews and deport them. As a child, I was taught that racism was, before everything, believing that there are such a thing as human races. Then, there's the whole thing of hierarchizing those "races" or associating specific traits, personnalities and abilities to those "races". But before that, you actually have to pretend that categorizing Humanity according racial lines has an actual scientific ground. Which it doesn't, it's total bullshit, ask any good genetician.

But "races" (and even there I have to use those quotation marks around the word) as used by anti-racist people, in the US or elsewhere, isn't so much about that as it is about the social groups formed around the visibility of cultural/ethnic differences. Being black-skinned is pretty visible, and that's got an effect on the practical life of people who are Black and live as minority within larger group, as well as with the cultural identity they self-identify, and I understand that.

But it still makes me go twitch.

So, chronologicaly, the first time I passed a quizz/test thing on the internet and they asked me my "race", I kind of frowned, and scratched my head. But I wanted to see the result of whatever it was, so I scanned the list : of course they didn't have "Jewish" on it, so after a while I clicked on "Other". I think I did that a few times over the years (not many internet quizzes ask you that).

Then I saw a few racism discussions in fandoms. I read, I learned, eventually I participated too. Among other things I learned about the concept of priviledge, and realized there were some I enjoyed, and some of which I was deprived. And once, I saw a link to a little .pdf pamphlet (which I wish I had kept a link to. ETA : this one : I can fix it, by damaliayo! thanks to cryptoxin for linking to it), which was giving white people some advice about how to not be racist. One of the first advice was owning up to the idea that we have race, and that this race was White.

Of course I had a little problem with that.

I don't self-identify as White, first because I still think the concept of "race" is stupid and wrong even if it's useful to fight against racism; and I don't really identify with the White culture (even though it's an obvious influence since I live in it) or the White agenda (as someone said over at lodessa's post) since I'm Jewish. And I went away from studying Anthropology with the firm belief that you can't go around and tell people what they should identify as. Identity, complex thing, voluntary basis only.

Then again, that wasn't that pamphlet point. Because If I had been Black, Asian or Native American or whatever, would I have identified as a Person of Colour? Hell, yes. So, not identifying as White, in this configuration, does that mean I see white skin as "default"? Well... kinda. Hello me own skanky race issues.

However, I'm still not happy using racial categories as if there were, you know, actual human races out there. So that's still stopping me.

But an important point remains : I enjoy white priviledge. I know I enjoy it, even if I don't know and might never know how it is to live without enjoying it. I know I've never been called an "immigrant" even though I'm just as 3rd generation immigrant as your average Maghrebin youth from the Parisian suburbs who would typically be called that, with all the insidious racism going with it.

When talking about the Jews overall, there's another issue. The majority of the Jewish population in the US is, I believe, Ashkenazi, who look very "white" overall. However there are Black Jews (both the Ethiopan Jews and from conversion and mixing), and there are big population of Jews from the Mediterranean region and the middle east who can look pretty dark skinned (My mother who was born in Algeria has been confused for Arab at least a couple of times). So you can't really treat "Jewish" as a whole as a racial category separate from the others.

Then of course, people should be aware that there are physical characteristics which have been historically associated to Jews by racist people. Someday I might even properly rant about the way it disturbs me that JKR could describe Snape as sallow skinned and hook nosed, and a master of potions; or, even worse, the goblins has having very similar characteristics as well as being, you know, money-grabbing bankers; while still co-opting the history of antisemitic opression to write her story.

The bottom line is, I think, that those racial categories the US (and a few other countries) use can be a useful tool to fight racism, but they're also problematic. I think neither the US nor France have the best approach about them. US condones too much the idea that "race" is relevent in an essentialist way, and France blissfully ignores issues of priviledge as well as removing the tools to actually know how much racism is a problem. Those categories when used do not represent any essential truth about people, but social classifications which happen and reflect society's basic racism. On the one hand, most Jews enjoy white priviledge and are therefore White/Caucasian. On the other hand, Jews, even in the US, don't exactly enjoy perfect tolerance and integration, and belong to a cultural group which is often separated from the WASP culture that "White/Caucasian" means. Maybe another way to think such system would be better able to represent both those truths at the same time.

IMHO, I'm simply looking at what I understand of American culture through a foreigner's eyes and via the internet.

Comments

[solesakuma]

As a non-Jewish person, I see Jews as white. But I tend to think of people as racially white/culturally X and I think that's very widespread in Argentina. Our attitude to racism is a lot like France's.
Racially black/Asian people have to be, hm, very noticeably non-white and probably foreigners at that. For example, in SGA? I didn't see any POC characters in there. They were all white to me.
Asking for your race in here is seen as very violent because... well, Argentina likes to think itself as 'European' and hides any kind of non-whiteness. Even if some 'whites' from here could be very well seen as 'POC' in USA/Europe. But for us, they're white and race categories feel racist.
Or the whole 'Latino' USA's category. I don't think it's a race because I'm 'Latina' (I guess) but I'm white. With a Irish surname. Blonde. It just reeks of 'Everything is Mexico down there' and heck, it's not even representative of Mexico.
I'm not saying that we're saints and have no race/discrimination issues, mind you, but that those issues are different. I just can't put 'antisemitism' inside 'racism' because I see it as a culture not as a 'race'.
And the goblins thing is very disturbing, I agree with you on that. It's the 'money-grabbing' or the long noses but the whole package.

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

I was going to leave a comment but you've said exactly what I was going to say, so...

Even if some 'whites' from here could be very well seen as 'POC' in USA/Europe. But for us, they're white and race categories feel racist.
It's not just Argentina; I know people from Chile and Colombia (countries without our "but we're Europe!" attitude) who consider themselves white, and that I would call white, but would probably be considered POC in the USA.

In short: like she said, when it comes to Jews I tend to think more in terms of culture than race.

[solesakuma]

Good you agree with me, because I was going to say 'Argentinians think like this' and felt a little unsure about how widespread it was.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Thanks for bringing the Argentinian pov to the discussion. Definitly goes to prove how socially constructed racial categories are. I'm not sure I entirely understand who Argentinians would consider as non-white from what you're saying. Foreigners, only?

I believe, may be wrong, that the American classification distinguish between "white" Hispanic and, err, non white Hispanic. Whatever that may means.

I don't see Jewishness as a race, but as a culture as well, yet I see antisemitism as racism, because it targets Jews by seeing them as a race. There were other kinds of antijudaism before modern antisemitism which didn't target Jews in the same way (religious basis mainly).

[solesakuma]

I'm not sure I entirely understand who Argentinians would consider as non-white from what you're saying. Foreigners, only?
Hm, it's hard to explain. I think that 'race' means 'white/Asian/black'. And so, Indians and Arabs are blurry categories, but I think that many people would put them in 'white' if forced to choose. Because they're not black. It's hard, because we really do not think in racial terms. (Again, it's that we don't discriminate, it's that it has a different base).
To be 'non-white' you have to be, to put it bluntly, very black/Asian and culturally you have to be very different too, you have to be 'marked' as black/asian. That's why foreigners are more often thought as non-white, because Argentinians are white and therefore, non-whites are not Argentinian. One woman, once, was denied entrance to the country as a native, even if she had her passport. The reason? 'There are no black Argentinians'.
As you see, our biggest issue is xenophobia, which is mixed with racism (all foreigners are idiots, specially Africans), classism ('negro', here, is a clasist term), etc.
We tend to put 'black' a lot closer to the darker side of the spectrum. :S How to make that sound non-racist, damn! For example, if Halle Berry were Argentinian, I'm quite sure she wouldn't be black, but Denzel Washington would.
Help me, laurus_nobilis.

I believe, may be wrong, that the American classification distinguish between "white" Hispanic and, err, non white Hispanic. Whatever that may means.
I don' really know. I mean, Gilmore Girl's 'Rory' is Mexican/ARgentinian/USAian but nobody ever calls her 'Latina'.

I don't see Jewishness as a race, but as a culture as well, yet I see antisemitism as racism, because it targets Jews by seeing them as a race. There were other kinds of antijudaism before modern antisemitism which didn't target Jews in the same way (religious basis mainly).
That one is true.

[laurus-nobilis.livejournal.com]

I'm late but I couldn't resist.

And so, Indians and Arabs are blurry categories, but I think that many people would put them in 'white' if forced to choose. Because they're not black. It's hard, because we really do not think in racial terms.
The way we think of Indians/Arabs/etc depends on the person, I think, but I also think the reason why it varies is what you said: we're not used to thinking in racial terms.

I think (key word here: think) that we just think of blacks/Asians as non-white has to do with the xenophobia issues. There are very few black people here, and the Asians only started coming in this generation. The USA definition of "latino" has always been around, obviously, and jews and arabs came with the first immigration waves so they're all Argentinian at this point. There's also the bit that always sounds as "zOMG we're Europe!", buuut... most of us do identify as white, even the white-hispanic or just hispanic ones, and culturally we do have a lot of our European recent ancestors. So it's complicated. (Which doesn't mean we're "better" like some people would like to think, but we can't deny we've had very different influences that other Latin American countries, either. And it affects the way we think about race.)

But mostly, yeah, it's what you said about not thinking in racial terms. That's why I identify as "Latin American" instead of "latina", especially when I'm speaking in English. It's just not the same thing.

[cryptoxin.livejournal.com]

This is a fascinating post with lots to mull over -- and I'm wondering whether this PDF from damali ayo's "I Can Fix It" project is what you had in mind?

I had similar thoughts reading HP with JKR's depictions of Snape & the goblins, but I'd never heard anyone else express them before (though I'm not in HP fandom) so I wondered if I was just imagining it or projecting.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yes! Thank you that was the pdf I meant!

I had similar thoughts reading HP with JKR's depictions of Snape & the goblins, but I'd never heard anyone else express them before (though I'm not in HP fandom) so I wondered if I was just imagining it or projecting.
I, hum, wondered the same thing, so I said nothing, even though I really was disturbed about it. I think I want to properly look up on the various stereotypes of Jews done by Nazis to see if it was as similar as I remember to JKR's description. My google fu failed me, and I was too lazy to look it up in a public library or something. So I'm glad you told me I wasn't the only one wondering about that.

[solesakuma]

I think I've seen it before because, come on, greedy long-nosed bankers??? It appears on the fucking Cantar del Mío Cid.

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

Fascinating and interesting post!

One of the new things here in the mix in the US is multiracial people. For example, my daughter is a quarter Japanese. Is she white? She looks white, with blue eyes, but she's still a quarter Asian. A friend of mine, who is Jewish, married a Christian guy, and they've adopted a son from Guatemala who is half Hispanic and half Native American. Is he Jewish, with as he has a Jewish first name and culture? Hispanic? Indian? White?

If her son married my daughter, how could you put their children meaningfully in any category?

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I did wonder about that a few times! So many people simply don't fall into any of those neat little boxes. I've seen a few time people refering to "multiracial" as a category (does it describes each different origins when it does?) and the wikipedia tells me you can pick several "races" by checking several boxes (or is that only for this specific census?). Either way it sounds like a laughably simplified way to deal with real people's complex histories and multiple identities. I keep being shocked that people use it as official categories relevant to bureaucracies, even when I see where it makes sense.

[metzhead.livejournal.com]

^ Money grubbing banker

I'm only half Jewish though. :p

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

you're not sallow skinned enough though, and I bet my nose is bigger than yours! :p

[metzhead.livejournal.com]

*throws a matzoh ball at you*

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

*ducks*

[catiechu.livejournal.com]

I actually tend to disregard ethnicity as a social factor entirely unless someone is being a total caricature, in which case I'm guilty of laughing a bit at their expense. I used to think this was a common way of being, but then I've met so many people who are profoundly racist, and it sort of weirds me out.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

What do you mean, disregard?

[imadra-blue.livejournal.com]

This was an absolutely fascinating post, and thank you for posting it. Lots of chewy toys for my thinky thoughts. I'm actually a first generation Cuban-American, though my mother is almost pure White Spaniard (with a brief stop-over in Cuba), so I look very white. But my father's ethnicity comes out, and it's fairly obvious from my thick lips and fairly wide nose (by white standards) that I have some African in me. I also have some European Jewish in me as well--well-kept family secret from the great-great generation. However, despite my pale skin, people usually assume I'm Italian or Jewish. It's difficult to explain that I'm Cuban-American to others, especially to people who do not understand all the migrations my family has gone through or that Cuba is as multi-ethnic as the US.

I also know little about Judaism outside of some academic studies of the text and general ideas. When I was little, I thought it was a religion, and I was about fourteen or fifteen before I understood that people ethnically identified with this religion. But then, I grew up in a strange environment. I also know very little about France, despite having some French ancestry. Mostly, I think I'm just a Heinz 57. And I still have a hard time with understanding the difference between religious Jews and ethnic Jews. It's very confusing to me. Mostly because I just think of people being in very general groups based on their coloring, here in the US, though I don't bother classifying any of them. I think it took me four years to actually realize I had no idea what ethnicity my best friend was (mostly Native American, Russian, and German, it turns out!). I guess being so mixed myself, and growing up in an environment with people from 4985798237548 different ethnicities, that it doesn't always register with me like it does a lot of white, middle-class Americans who live in bubbles (or, really, any ethnicity that lives in a bubble filled with their own ethnicity).

And I hate the term "race" for the same reasons.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I always find it terribly cool to think of the diversity of origins and culture people have in them. I think one of the difference is that in the US, some kind of diversity of origins is expected, even among white people, from different European countries, and sometimes I wonder if that's not why I like Americans so much, in discussions on the internet ^^ But even there, as you say, people may not understand because they classify someone as White and don't think of the multiethnicity of Cuba... very interesting.

I don't know much about Judaism either, beyond being one. We're not a very religious family, and there's plenty of rites and feasts we've never done. The complexity of Jewish as an identity... well, to me it's first a question of culture. Religion comes after. "Race" is only relevent because of racism. It's not how I would define Judaism myself. I actually know a fair number of people who have some Jewish ancestorship without fully identitying as fully Jewish - like you, or metzhead or keynsha... it's interesting to see how they relate to that, as well. What kind of identity does it represent for you?

yeah, "race" just isn't a nice word. I like ethnicity better already.

[busaikko]

I don't really like the idea of 'race', because I associate that with 'skin color'. Sure, it's an easy way to divide people, but not really accurate!

I do think that instead of race, asking people to self-identify by culture/ethnicity is better. As I understand it, this would be similar to the category of 'Hispanic' in the US (Hispanics are united by language and culture, and have all skin colors); and I think close to what many people would think of as a 'Jewish' or 'Muslim' group (united by religion, language, and/or culture).

I'm an Anglo-Irish white American, but I've lived over half my life as a racial/ethnic minority (in W Africa and Japan). My kids have two nationalities--no idea which they'll choose when they are adults and have to!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I agree with you that culture/ethnicity make more sense. They more accurately represent how people relate to their identity, what communities they see themselves as belonging to. However there's nothing simple about those identities, they're often multiple and complex. Like, when you mention 'Muslim', I don't know all that much about this culture, but I know that ethnically, Arabian culture makes some distinctions both in terms of religion (shiites and sunnites), in terms of ethnicity (Arab as such, Persians, Berbers, Turks, etc.), and they also are groups who belong to this overall culture but are distinguished from it by religion (like Mizraic Jews, Druzes, Christian Arabs...) and since as I said I don't know this culture well overall, I'm probably overlooking a bunch of other factors as well. These also are identities which shift depending on who you're talking to, in what context, and what moment of one's life. So they don't really serve as the neat boxes census and bureaucratic management would want to use.

[ann1962]

This is an excellent post. Thank you.

I think in the US how Jewish people are perceived in terms of ethnicity is regional. Until I moved to Connecticut, the Jewish people I met were all from Northern European descent. Poland, Germany. When I moved to W. Hartford CT, I met Jewish people from everywhere, and a good portion of them were of Middle Eastern descent. I just realized not having connected it before, the most outward anti-antisemitism I saw was in CT, and those Jewish people could be perceived as people of colour.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Thanks for your comment ^^

That's interesting, that they can be constructed as a 'race' depending on the region, and from their own origin. So even antisemitism can be related to 'Colour'.

[keynsha.livejournal.com]

You say "So you can't really treat "Jewish" as a whole as a racial category separate from the others."
I'd say : you can't at all !

Well, that's a religion, but it's secondary in the subject. First of all, it's a culture. As you said, jewish from over the worlds have various origins, because of the conversion or because of the mixing of bloods (and everyone knows how easy jewish girls are. Look, some of you got pregnant even from unknown gods ! So how to keep a people "pure" ? ^^)
There is probably a blood history in many jewish populations, since they probably lived in communities for centuries, but lots of little groups seemed to have been spread all over africa, europe, east and america. And they have been mixed with "local" people, creating a diversity that, it seems to me, forbid anyone rationnal to talk about jewish as an ethnical group at all.
I'd like to compare with christians and muslims, that were never considered as ethnical, but it's not really relevant since jewish were more communautarist and much less proselyte.

For me, Ete, you look 100% white-caucasian-european. And even after I learned about you that terrible secret about your origins, I didn't change my mind. Ok, you have the long nose, but that's not really relevant (since even non-jewish people can have it. Argh, are jewish boys and non-jewish girls that unfaithful too ?). I think there are lots of jewish in France that came back from algeria after the war, and they are an ethnic group that can make people think jewish look like that (jewish actors like Richard Anconina, or my own grandfather) because they have mediterranean features.

About other ethnical considerations, it makes me think about a girl from Madagascar, who disliked being considered as "black", because black meant "african" for her, and "come on, we don't look the same at all !". yeah, the eyes were clearly different (more asian-like) and the skin had a particular shade. But the difference didn't look obvious to me. Because in Africa and around, how many different ethnical groups can we count ? Resuming by the fact that they are blacker than european is quite a simplification ^^ (But it's still more accurate than about the jewish)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was adressing my post to a majority of American people, who are used to refer to 'race' in day-to-day discussion.

I agree it's mainly a culture, and that various origins are concerned. I've heard Israeli and Palestinians, for example, aren't genetically any different.

But 'ethnicity' actually does refer to culture as much if not more as it refers ancestry. It's the idea of a culturaly bound people who are also tied by kinship (which Jews still are, even if other groups are interrelated to it). Then again, Jews are a 'race' for the people who are antisemites, so that should also be taken in consideration.

You say I'm 100% white-caucasian-european, and it's true I'm very much white-skinned, and I have clear eyes, I'm not arguing that I don't look white, especially to random people of the street. At the same time, half of my origin came from North Africa, and if they were partly of European ascendancy, that had to be from Spain / Portugal, back in the 15th century - despite what I look like.

I think there are lots of jewish in France that came back from algeria after the war, and they are an ethnic group that can make people think jewish look like that (jewish actors like Richard Anconina, or my own grandfather) because they have mediterranean features.
Yes.

About other ethnical considerations, it makes me think about a girl from Madagascar, who disliked being considered as "black", because black meant "african" for her, and "come on, we don't look the same at all !". yeah, the eyes were clearly different (more asian-like) and the skin had a particular shade. But the difference didn't look obvious to me. Because in Africa and around, how many different ethnical groups can we count ? Resuming by the fact that they are blacker than european is quite a simplification ^^ (But it's still more accurate than about the jewish)
Actually I once heard that "Africans" was the single most diverse group genetically speaking into different "populations". People from Madagascar... well they're a lot of different of cultural group in Madagascar, but lot of them are South Asians. I guess this girl may have looked more like a South Asian? Anyway, it's totally true that different people may be unhappy with different categories they may be lumped with. And that the "blackness" of people totally depends also of the region. I think other things like the way people dress, their body language, their accent (or not), will also have an impact on whether or not people will be seen as "Black", and there's a lot of competitive dynamic about it.

[dizilla.livejournal.com]

That's kinda interesting cause the way it seemed to me, was that the Jewish weren't considered white. at least that's how history was taught for me. Most of the time Jewish people would be lumped in with the minorities or at the very least like i said, not white. Not that I really think about it, but I'm able to, most of the time, be able to distinguish a Jewish person. They're mostly not WASP looking to me. Then of course there's other Jewish people like you mentioned who are from Ethiopia and other areas.

I do a lot of the online surveys, as I like them and I get money for them.. I hate filling out race. I don't consider myself white. Even though it's a culture/regional thing, I consider myself Hispanic. I'm light brown-skinned, and most of my family can easily be mistaken for any country of Hispanic or Middle Eastern Asian. I say most as my grandmother looks nothing like us and would be more mistaken for an old Russian lady. XD

Any type of categorization will always be too simple cause no one fits into a nice little box. Now if only we as a human race could stop judging people by the way they look.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

are minorities non white by nature then? Interesting. I think that sometimes, yes, "Black" is used as meaning "not the majority". It reminds me of a French song which got those lyrics :

J'étais noir moi aussi mais pour d'autres raisons
J'avais passé dix ans à dormir en prison

"I was Black as well but for other reasons
I ha dspent ten years sleeping in prisons"

Classism as well may be an oft underestimated factor about which people are read as Black.

Not that I really think about it, but I'm able to, most of the time, be able to distinguish a Jewish person. They're mostly not WASP looking to me.
I think it depends. Some Jewish people can really look "Jewish", some really don't. I'm not even sure if those who look Jewish are the majority.

Even though it's a culture/regional thing, I consider myself Hispanic. I'm light brown-skinned, and most of my family can easily be mistaken for any country of Hispanic or Middle Eastern Asian.
*nods* That totally makes sense.

Any type of categorization will always be too simple cause no one fits into a nice little box. Now if only we as a human race could stop judging people by the way they look.
Yes!

Thanks for commenting.

[cloud-wolf.livejournal.com]

Well, me (living in Rotterdam) barely know any Jews, except for one sweet boy who had brown hair and blue eyes (when I was 9 or so). I always considered Jews to be white really but nowadays things with religions and cultures and ethnicity are so fucked up in the Netherlands that I'm really confused.

Example: I consider my life history to be devided by two events: 9/11 in 2001 and the death of Pim Fortuyn in 2002. Before this happened I was blissfully unaware of anything having to do with cultures. I thought Iran was a town in Turkey (Because there were so many Turks in my street and I barely knew any Iranians before going to Sunday Farsi school) didn't know that Jews and Israel had anything to do with each other, didn't know jack about Muslims or if my family were muslims (they're not, they're commies :D). Well, that changed after Pim Fortuyn. Suddenly I get called an Afghan on the playground by some snotnose sevenyear old after I admonish him for being a brat (I was eleven). Some guy calls my brother a Turk who surely stole that new bicycle he's cycling on. I could see people glaring at me after Pim Fortuyn's death (especially people in Rotterdam loved Fortuyn, it's where he came from). It made me never want to go back to Vreewijk, the block where my primary school is and where his most fervent supporters came from. (It also made me want to headdesk, Fortuyn was killed by an animal rights activist, not a muslim/arab/middle eastern type)

Really, the Netherlands was thought of as tolerant but the Dutch nowadays have really become intolerant and bitchy about the whole culture issue. Every minority gets hated on from muslims (e.g. Geert Wilders) to blacks to commies to jews(example: the Amsterdam footbalclub Ajax has loads of Jewish fans who go to games with the star of David on their flags which will inevitably result in the opposing supporters (doesn't matter which team) yelling "Hamas Hamas, alle Joden aan het gas": Hamas Hamas all the jews on gas)It doesn't have much to do with race as it has to do with minorities.

However, I don't feel that it's as bad as in the US (which should tell you how pessimistic my view of the US is)

*stares at own post* That was rambling and disconnected, I hope you understand it.

[oeil.livejournal.com]

I stumbled across your LiveJournal via The Book Ninja (http://www.the-book-ninja.org/) and I just wanted to say that I really love your opinions - not only on this issue, but also on the whole Chicklit thing and everything.

Everything I've been meaning to say have already been said but I wanted to add that, as a french women who've lived all her life in France, I totally understand this point: As a child, I was taught that racism was, before everything, believing that there are such a thing as human races.

I can't exactly remember the first time I realized that english-speaking people (on the internet) had no problem using the word race but I'm pretty sure I still haven't recovered... I have this thing in my brain that just want to say "Races? No, no, there is no such thing as races. There is only once race, and it's the Human Race". Ah, merci l'Education Nationale!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly! It'd nice to see someone who understand what I meant ^^ and thank you :p