Fics & stuff

[salinea]

I've posted a DVD commentary of Weaknesses at solesakuma's request.


[CENSURED]'s ASOIAF gen ficlet exchange reveals!

The delightful fic written for me was Lives unlived by redcandle17, a mindblowing exploration of might-have-been for Jaime Lannister, even better than what I hoped when I made the request.

My own offer was:
Useful
Brienne, OC
For lodessa, to the request : How she got into knighthood in the first place.

Since we're talking ASOIAF, I don't think I ever linked to another ficlet of mine :
The Lady in the Tower (also posted here under flock, you need to join the comm to read)
Cersei
"She was beautiful, they say, as beautiful as she was wicked."

Comments

[after-nightfall.livejournal.com]

What a mysterious community with almost no info. Not fanfic at all, nosiree, Bob, eh?

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

something like that. The ASOIAF fanfic fandom is weirdly paranoid. Almost all of the comms are flocked, and many of the writers do as well. That user info for notafanficcom really does amuse me, even if I find it absurd. How are we supposed to bring other people in the fandom?

[werthead.livejournal.com]

Well, GRRM is against fanfic in all its forms and at his request, the Westeros.org board does not permit fanfic or discussion of fanfic on the board at all. I imagine this is why they're paranoid about the situation.

However, there isn't really any need for concern. You'd be surprised at how many people on the board are also members of shipping/fanfic communities and as long as they don't post anything on the board itself, I for one don't have any problem with what they're doing elsewhere, as long as it doesn't infringe copyright. Although I do find the Sandor/Sansa relationship rather disturbing myself and the shippers take it WAAAAY further than GRRM does, but that's probably just me :-O

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

GRRM is against fanfic in all its forms
With all due respect to GRRM I'm not sure I follow how fanfics is any of his business.

I remember when Ran's board instaured those rules. I also remember when some folk were invited to another board to write their own fanfics. At the time, the thought of another board existing for fanworks didn't create any scandal (even if the fanfics' nature were parodic).

So basically I agree with you :)

(note that Ran probably didn't win any point for himself on these issues when he commented on an LJ community to talk about GRRM's opinion of fanfics...)

Although I do find the Sandor/Sansa relationship rather disturbing myself and the shippers take it WAAAAY further than GRRM does, but that's probably just me :-O
More or less than the Drogo/Daenarys thing that were included in the books? ^_^

[werthead.livejournal.com]

With all due respect to GRRM I'm not sure I follow how fanfics is any of his business.

Well, they are using his characters without permission and therefore violating copyright, which is obviously of concern to the author. However, GRRM seems to be following the 'no money' rule that 99% of writers take, that as long as no-one's trying to profit from his characters without his permission, he's not going to pursue the matter. That was the lesson that everyone learned from Lucasfilm going around suing everyone and slamming legal orders against fanfic writers in the mid-90s, that pissing off your most ardent fans (whom fanfic writers usually are) is not really going to get you anywhere. Among those 1% of writers who do enforce this rule is Terry Goodkind, which is why the Sword of Truth fanfic communities out there lie very low indeed and have no contact with any of the official GK forums (and amusingly seem to loathe the Yeard far more than anyone on Westeros).

Also, GRRM started his writing career writing for comics using other people's characters, so I don't think he's unsympathetic to the fanfic writers' POV ;-) He just doesn't want it on what is his most popular forum.

Point taken about the Drogo/Dany thing versus Sandor/Sansa (alliterative couplings FTW!). I suppose the fact that the former became a mutual love match puts it in a different league to the Sandor/Sansa thing where there are power/dominance issues, and the age gap was rather wider IIRC. The other thing I didn't get about the Sandor/Sansa shippers was why they seemed to find that relationship so romantic whilst seriously hating on Rhaegar/Lyanna (nevermind that we haven't got anything close to the full story on that relationship in the books, so they're working on imperfect information).

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

There's never been a lawsuit addressing fanfics, so we don't actually know whether they're illegal or not. At most you can make a case for a violation of trademarks, when we're talking of big franchises of course (which asoiaf isn't yet). Morally speaking, this is not plagiat, and nobody claims an ownership which they don't have.

Among those 1% of writers who do enforce this rule is Terry Goodkind, which is why the Sword of Truth fanfic communities out there lie very low indeed and have no contact with any of the official GK forums (and amusingly seem to loathe the Yeard far more than anyone on Westeros).
Makes me think of Ann Rice and LKHamilton XD why are all batshit crazy writers all alike?

He just doesn't want it on what is his most popular forum.
I thought it was because he felt it wasn't good for writing practice (which I thought was rather condescending and part of "how is it his business" reaction).

I suppose the fact that the former became a mutual love match puts it in a different league to the Sandor/Sansa thing where there are power/dominance issues, and the age gap was rather wider IIRC
*blinks* Sandor/Sansa has more power/dominance issues than Drogo/Daenarys had? And the age gap is actually worse for Drogo/Dany IIRC.
Don't mistake me, while I like Sandor/Sansa, I don't see it as a "healthy" pairing. They've both a messed up outlook on things... which is part of the appeal ^_^

"Romantic" may mean any number of things, from XIXth century romantism to "romantic comedy". To me it usually means unhealthy obsession. It's fun to read in fiction.

The other thing I didn't get about the Sandor/Sansa shippers was why they seemed to find that relationship so romantic whilst seriously hating on Rhaegar/Lyanna
Really? I'd never noticed XD
I'm with you on this one. Reserving my judgement until we get the full story.

[werthead.livejournal.com]

I thought it was because he felt it wasn't good for writing practice

That is one reason. There is another, far more serious reason: it is the responsibility of the copyright-holder to protect his copyright. If he does not actively protect it, he can lose that copyright. This particularly startling piece of news came to light when Raymond E. Feist was made aware of a computer game mod based on his Midkemian setting being worked on by some people without his permission. Because it wasn't being made for profit, he didn't give a damn about but it he ran it by his lawyers. The second he did that, they had to shut it down. If they hadn't, then it could have been argued that he wasn't protecting his copyright, establishing a precedent that could have allowed others to use his books, settings and characters - even for profit - without his permission. The other option of course was to give the mod his seal of approval, but for whatever reason - it was probably rubbish - Feist chose not to do that. It should be noted that this was not tested in the courtroom, but Feist's lawyers were seriously concerned about it. This was also about eight years ago, so things could have changed since then.

This is why, as far as I can tell, no author allows fan-created material on their main forums. Because if it happens there they cannot claim they didn't know about it and thus they could be in danger of losing their copyright in the same fashion. Whilst the author can plead ignorance about stuff happening in remote corners of LJ. Bonkers stuff, but true. And obviously this applies to US copyright law. How that works with European law I am completely clueless about ;-)

And before someone points it out, yes, the status of the ASoIaF Total War mod on the forums is teetering right on the edge of the copyright abyss as well and if it ever looks like it's going to be completed, we'd probably have to get clarification about its status.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Again this sounds like trademark more than copyright AFAICS (I'm no American lawyer)

Copyright v. Trademark

[(Anonymous)]

As a lawyer and a fan of GRRM's books I think it might be helpful to clarify a few of the points being discussed on this board.

1) Characters are generally not copyrightable material. There are rare cases where the character embodies the "story being told" in which case the character's persona merges with the story, which is copyrightable.

2) Fan fiction lies in a grey area because the stories are original however the settings and characters are lifted, there is no decisive ruling in American Courts on this issue.

3) Assuming for the sake of argument that the world of westeros and the characters are copyrightable, even then it's possible that fan fiction would qualify as a "fair use" of GRRM's material and thus not be an infringement. There are number of factors court's weigh in determining whether an otherwise infringing use is fair, only one of which is whether or not the infringing party seeks to profit.

4) An author does NOT have to actively protect his copyright. Pursuant to the Copyright Act of 1976 any creative material placed in a tangible medium is protected by federal copyright, no matter what.

5) Trademark law is not really relevant here, it evolved from the tort of unfair competition. Since fanfics are not a part of the competing market with GRRM's work they cannot infringe any trademark he might hold.

Hope this helps frame the discussion.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

hahah they have other info under flock I had entirely forgotten about, and apparently I wasn't supposed to mention the com in a public post the first rule of noafanficcom is we don't talk about notafanficcom XD.

I hope I'm not going to get kicked off the comm for linking to my fics without a flock or whatever.

[redcandle17.livejournal.com]

Well, if Ran shows up to lecture us on the evil of our ways, we'll hold you responsible. :P elanor_isolda and hedonisticated founded the comm a while ago, and the rules are theirs. I've only been a mod since last fall.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

*nods* regardless of what I think of it, it's definitly their rules and their right to enforce them ^^ which is why I edited my posts.

[scriva.livejournal.com]

I liked the story about Jaime. I think character pieces that make you question your perception of the characters in comparison to other reader's perception are just as interesting as the discussions about the characters or alternative directions of the stories.

I have yet to read the other fics.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the value of fanfic as commentary is sometimes one of the argument made for it, from a legal stance ^_^ I do think it can be an interesting way to make a point.