Code Geass Finale thoughts

[salinea]

An okay episode. I was expecting to be more surprised than I was. Way to go Sunrise, surprising me with an unsurprising ending! Nice in execution, pretty scenes and all that, and I always like a good character death scene (which it was) and Schrödinger!Lelouch makes it even better - I like this kind of open ending. Passing-of-masks is the big tradition of Masked Revolutionary Avengers everywhere so it's a fitting bit if not surprising. And I kinda love that Suzaku is condemned to live, very fitting and nice way for him to grow. On the flip side, many characters were kinda pointless in the end, or just never got to do anything to drive their own story (my big issues with CC, who is awesome otherwise, but just never does anything for herself argh!)

My big issue with this end is this bit of Fridge Logic : Lelouch's plan sucks.

Seriously, lamest plan for world peace ever. The world doesn't lack in reviled tyrans that everyone hates. This has yet to create insta world peace. The only thing Lelouch's earned is that for the 50-100 years from now on, in chats and forums when someone doesn't like what you say, they're going to compare you to Lelouch. You'd think that with the number of WW2 and Cold War era parallelism that was in Code Geass, the writers would have been aware of the fact that lots of folks being united against a common ennemy at one point of History didn't result in an era of hearts and puppies. If the people from the world of Code Geass manage to get more stability, global cooperation and human rights protection than they did before, it will be thanks to the leaders that were left, the institution they'll built and the work they'll do - which Lelouch, whether dead or alive, chose not to be a part of after all the mess he caused (and even if said mess probably helped some of those leaders get into the right state of mind to create this peace it's more of a side effect than the whole of Lelouch's plan).

Does anyone see something I missed in the Zero Requiem besides DRAMA to make it a brilliant plan?

Comments

[mintine.livejournal.com]

Nice in execution, pretty scenes and all that

Nice in execution

Nice in execution

OH GOD THE PUN

/CLAWS EYES OUT

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... I didn't even intend that one, but now I'm happy I did it XD

[http://users.livejournal.com/nightcrawler_2_/]

OW OW OW OW

TOO EARLY D=

[consequences.livejournal.com]

-claws with you- ;-;

[mixtapehaven.livejournal.com]

I DIDN'T EVEN NOTICE UNTIL YOU-

[rebbe]

DI

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING HERE

ja;sldjfl;sdjf;lasdjf;lkdsjf;lksdjf

why are lb people everywhere ;alksjdlfkjs;df

[kariavalon.livejournal.com]

Took me a few seconds to get this. *slow*

[kuroiinu-chan.livejournal.com]

TOO SOON. ;_;

[(Anonymous)]

it might be an excuse for he to kill himself.
But he's partly right. If there's someone to blame the hate on, kill that person and people can be somewhat at ease.
I think that psychological thought is true. People just need someone to blame.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

it might be an excuse for he to kill himself.
Yes, this I can see. But that's a very selfish desire at this point.

People just need someone to blame.
People love having someone to blame. But is it good for people, in order to build a better tomorrow, to resort to scapegoating? Is that a way for people to take responsibility and learn to make peace?

[chiapetzukamori.livejournal.com]

don't forget, that that hate and blame fade eventually. At least to the point where people won't unite in a cause over it anyway.
Take for instance the terrorist attacks of 9/11/01. Yeah, everybody in the US was united and all worked up for a couple weeks...but after that things returned to normal.
Everyone's hatred for Lelouch would fade as time went on and then things'll start going downhill again. There would be a period of peace for a while, but eventually some jerk will come and screw it all up for everybody. Story of the world.

[dr-wats0n.livejournal.com]

Besides DRAMA? Desire for redemption. But mostly, DRAMA, because Code Geass writers like their DRAMA way too much.

Considering how stupid people in Geass-verse are, they probably would have been better off under the reign of a genius absolutist with his heart in the right place, than they will be in Democracy where people like motherfucking Jewgi make political decisions XD.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I do love the DRAMA as well! But I like when it makes at least a little tiniest bit of sense as well as DRAMA. There were points where I thought Code Geass had actually a titbits of subtleties in its handling of political and race issues.

[keelieinblack.livejournal.com]

The only thing Lelouch's earned is that for the 50-100 years from now on, in chats and forums when someone doesn't like what you say, they're going to compare you to Lelouch.

Does this mean that in the Code Geass world, mentioning Lelouch during an argument becomes the new Godwin's Law? XD

I'm just amused that the Zero Requiem essentially rips off part of the Big Plan from Watchmen. (Er, not that it was original to Watchmen in the first place. But still.)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Does this mean that in the Code Geass world, mentioning Lelouch during an argument becomes the new Godwin's Law? XD
That's exactly what I meant. Lelouch is the new Hitler. Way to go, Lelouch! But exactly how does that help?

I'm just amused that the Zero Requiem essentially rips off part of the Big Plan from Watchmen.
You know, earlier I was think Schneizel made me think of Wathmen, with the fear of FREYA intimidating the world into peace, and probably it was the blondeness as well. I see your point, but it diverges in that once dead Lelouch's no longer a threat.

[kurozukin-a.livejournal.com]

I'm just amused that the Zero Requiem essentially rips off part of the Big Plan from Watchmen.
Thank god I'm not the only one who thought this. I was thinking, "Damn Lulu, couldn't you have just built a giant squid instead?"

[evilmooglequeen.livejournal.com]

I was thinking the same thing.

Probably the argument people would make supporting his “brilliant plan” is that Lelouche needed to erase himself to effectively end Britania as it existed before so the world could start anew. World peace isn’t guaranteed, but people now get a chance to fix things or screw up again on their own, instead of being controlled by the Britannian empire or whatever crazy plans Charles and Schneizel had.

But there are so many things I find wrong about Lelouche’s scapegoat plan. For one, I do not think it is remotely ok to do horrible things and act like an ass to get people to hate you so you can then die and become a scapegoat to pay for your sins. We’re probably supposed to feel sympathetic for his sacrifice because in the end it was all for the “greater good,” but I guess I still don’t agree that the ends justify the means.

The idea of throwing the blame onto one person and then moving on with life strikes me as a somewhat Japanese way of thinking. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that in Japan if something goes wrong, the politician or CEO or whoever’s on top takes the fall and then everyone else gets to innocent and move on. The same thing kind of happened with WWII, when most the blame for the things Japan did got placed on the government of the time so now Japan can have a victim complex about the war too.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

World peace isn’t guaranteed, but people now get a chance to fix things or screw up again on their own, instead of being controlled by the Britannian empire or whatever crazy plans Charles and Schneizel had.
This is true. From a strategic point of view, he certainly succeeded in wiping the balance of power clean-er. However Britannia was only one part of the problem. I think the strongest thing he did from that pov was the creation of the United Nation thingie that was done mid season. Then he removed Britannia as a threat from the equation, so that it can get involved into that structure without destabilizing everything... hopefully.

I agree with you that the ends do not justify with the means. There may be necessary evils, but not justification for it. I guess Lelouch does see himself as doing necessary evils. For the most part, I found Lelouch sympathetic despite this because, well, he's adorkable and full of drama :D but it's hard not see him as selfish in the end. He destroyed the world, but he didn't rebuilt it - that's going to be Suzaku, Kaguya, Tianzin, Ohgi, etc. 's job - and it's going to be the hardest job.

The same thing kind of happened with WWII, when most the blame for the things Japan did got placed on the government of the time so now Japan can have a victim complex about the war too.
That's an interesting point. One of the thing I did like about Code Geass is that I thought it handled the WW2 themes in a way that wasn't all out apologetic about Japan's. The way there was constant talk about Japan's role before the war occurred, Genbu's do-or-die resistance, terrorists as terrorists...
So in the end it leaves a bitter taste. Scapegoating to me is something very wrong, morally speaking. Something that leaves real scars in the way a society could get built.

[chibi-plum.livejournal.com]

Amen. I mentioned this below. I do agree with you about the Japanese way of thinking, perhaps. My biggest complaint was that I wanted his redemption to come from reaching out to his loved ones with his heart... not his death. Therefore, I find his departure as a weak path to take.

[jjblue1.livejournal.com]

There's something that has to be considered. Lelouch, despite being a tyrant, forced everyone else in a state of equality getting rid of who didn't believe in it, either geassing him or killing him. Therefore the remaining leaders will have a much easier work since they wouldn't find opposition.
At least for a while.
I guess while Lelouch managed to get rid of the biggest, loudest enemies of world peace the small ones still remain, can grow, join forces and make huge messes.
So to deal with those people would be the remaining leaders' job. I don't think he wanted to give them a perfect world... just a new start.
Lelouch believed in evolution, in fighting to improve.
If the world he created was perfect the tomorrow he wanted would end up becoming a today.
A very nice one, mind you, but I'm not sure that was what he had in mind.
Said that I'll add I think his plan might work merely because we're in the Code Geass universe. In real world there are too many powerful yet well hidden 'bad guys' for a person to wipe them out as easily as he did. Even if he might have reduced their number making it look like as if 'Good' had won I fear 'Evil' will regain ground very soon.
After all even the CG good guys have shades of... evil.
Kallen is ready to do everything, even to stab Suzaku in the back for what she believes is right.
The Black Knight wanted to execute Lelouch without a proper trial, blindly believing Shneizer, Cornelia and Villetta's accusations (Shneizer had been their enemy up until few moments before and could have made up the recordings, Cornelia had been their enemy in all the first season and, even if Ougi loved Villetta (and she was saying the truth) she had already tried to kill him and worked for Britannia).
Also Toudo seemed prone to consider to get rid of Zero if his actions weren't profitable for Japanese.
Rivalz didn't lift a finger to help the people in the truck in Ep. 1.
Even Shirley, out of desperation for her father's death, had considered committing murder (which is really reasonable considered the circumstances).
And so on. Humans aren't perfect, Lelouch knows this.
I think all he wanted was to give them all a chance to fit in the system and to work to improve it from within in a pacifical way (remember the discussion between Kallen and Suzaku?). How humans will handle that chance is up to them.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

So to deal with those people would be the remaining leaders' job. I don't think he wanted to give them a perfect world... just a new start.
Lelouch believed in evolution, in fighting to improve.
I can see that. It's a nice interpretation. I just think it's selfish of him too, because it leaves the hardest work to others.

After all even the CG good guys have shades of... evil.
That's always been CG's biggest strength. There's no good guys, there's a bunch of protagonists and a few antagonist, and lots of side switching all the time. No one's entirely evil, and no one's entirely good.

I think all he wanted was to give them all a chance to fit in the system and to work to improve it from within in a pacifical way
But couldn't have done that without the Zero Requiem? By working at it fairly instead of bullying his way in a rushed couple of monthes?

Of course that wouldn't have been as DRAMATIC and Lelouch certainly loves his DRAMA, but yeah...

[chibi-plum.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna post what I wrote on my journal because I thought it was weak as well:


About what I expected. I did cry... mostly for Nunnally. I don't really understand why he chose to do things the way he did. I know that the Geass was meant to bring everyone to a uniform frame of mind, but no matter what Kool-aid Lulu was drinking at the time that his brain formed this optimal ending of his own existence, I think it was a weak way for him to repent for his sins.

He could have used his Geass more intelligently in an effort to bring the world together and he could have ruled it efficiently with the people that he loved and who loved him. It didn't have to be black or white: meaning, he didn't have to become the cruel ruler. He just never made the effort to talk about his sins OR his errors OR his mistakes. Holding it all in did not make him a better person, and -to be honest- it didn't benefit anyone in the end.

He continued to lie to his loved ones and protected his heart with an ugly mask. I feel really bad for Suzy-kun. I know he was ready to take that burden and carry the bloody cross for Lulu, but I will never be convinced that the Final Turn wasn't an act of weakness. I get that he believed that Geass is not meant for a happy and peaceful world, but I don't believe he tried to allow the two to co-exist because he came to hate his power so much. In the end, he still had to use it to bring the people together. It feels hypocrital. To believe he had to use it for a purpose, but to not believe in himself to right the world with the power of kings and his own heart... I felt was weak.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

we are in agreement :(

[summanaro.livejournal.com]

I love how you're trying to bring logic into this anime. lol

I mean, I agree, but there is no such thing as logic in code geass. soap opera logic, maybe.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that might be the big flaw of my argument XD

[konart.livejournal.com]

well, the eternal peace is highly doubtful. And LL plan is classic, so...can't blame sunrise

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Guess so.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

I've been following CG since its first season, not by watching it but screencaps and episode summaries, and it gives me the impression that it doesn't know what kind of show it wants to be. High school drama, best friends turned enemies, or mecha or supernatural.

That said, Lelouch's death seems.. pointless. Plus it sparks of Treize's plan in GW to unite the world and create peace by making everyone hate him.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

and it gives me the impression that it doesn't know what kind of show it wants to be.
God, yes. It tries to do way too many things at the same time, it's sometimes irritating, sometimes pretty successful, and sometimes kinda fizzle under its own way.

I don't know GW, but my overall impression is that CG stole a lot from right and left. Part of the Genre Kitchen Sink / Giant Chop Suey mentioned above. But yeah : silly.

[(Anonymous)]

Are you insulting the man who died for your sins, etrangere? I think that is rather callous and disrespectful of you.

But less seriously, I agree with you. Too bad the end was quite evident by 21 though, when instead of Lelouch hitting up a training montage in Siberia in preparation to fight Papabear, his ideological retort was that Man will find a way to make itself happy. Yeaaaaah Lelouch, about that...

If he cared about the world, he should have found a way to make use of his consummate acting skills to declare "blargh im ded", and take on the curse of Zero upon himself. While Suzaku has Schneizel provide the brainpower, Zero's spirit will judge him lacking in flamboyance. There is no future in that Zero.

But, on the other hand, I can't be mad at the ending*. It was very Lelouch-like. He always was extremely selfish (some might argue it was altruism), so for him to choose what he thought best for the world, and kill himself in redemption isn't that surprising. I see the scene where he drags up the line he made in the very first episode, "only those who are prepared to be shot can shoot", as his proof of his path.


* Despite my well-established perversion on incestuous liaisons, I always claim I never expect them to deliver. However, with Code Geass... With Code Geass, I secretly dared hope**, whether in life or death. It figures the idiot had to get the one thing that made Nunners' world happy killed in order to make her world happy.

** It was there people! I'm sure he sewed that slave outfit for her himself.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Are you insulting the man who died for your sins, etrangere? I think that is rather callous and disrespectful of you.
It's the Jew in me. :p

If he cared about the world, he should have found a way to make use of his consummate acting skills to declare "blargh im ded", and take on the curse of Zero upon himself.
LOL yes!

While Suzaku has Schneizel provide the brainpower, Zero's spirit will judge him lacking in flamboyance. There is no future in that Zero.
If we take the LL ending, maybe he'll stick around to help Suzaku, and they could be a Double Zero team, or something.

It was very Lelouch-like. He always was extremely selfish (some might argue it was altruism), so for him to choose what he thought best for the world, and kill himself in redemption isn't that surprising. I see the scene where he drags up the line he made in the very first episode, "only those who are prepared to be shot can shoot", as his proof of his path.
That is very true.

I'm sure he sewed that slave outfit for her himself.
You know, he probably did. XD