(no subject)

[salinea]

stolen from a_white_rain

Comment with any ship (romantic or platonic or maybe even non-existent!) from a fandom that you know I have some knowledge about, and I will rant about aforementioned ship. This may be incoherent gushing or exclamations of disgust, depending on your ship of choice.

Comments

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

Xavier et Magneto :-)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... I'm trying to find something intelligent to say besides *squee*squee*loves them*

I think I'm a bit confused between different continuities right now and lacking a vision d'ensemble. >_>;;

But yeah, loves them ♥ loves how much they have respect for one another and the endless arguments, and the way they just click intellectually speaking, as one another's peer in a way they don't with anyone else (don't contradict me based on my lack of knowledge of comicbook verse plz! :P well yes you can, that's just the impression I got for now ^^;).

[twhitesakura.livejournal.com]

Seishirou and...Hokuto! *is evil*

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Seishirou and Hokuto have a very interesting relationship actually!! On the first level they function as partners in crime in a very entertaining manner all through TB. They have a relatively similar sense of humour I guess (at least they both like to be a little bit outrageous ^^). On another level... I actually buy that they respect one another. Hokuto is gauging Seishirou through most of TB, he's the man who her brother loves so she needs to figure out if he can take good care of him and... well on some level obviously Seishirou can protect him, but she figures out he's also a little bit not right and SHE THREATENS HIM WITH THE BREAD KNIFE - which is AWESOME ^_^ and Seishirou learns that he should respect Hokuto, as she chases him down and finds the spell that will prevent him from killing Subaru. I think he's genuinely impressed with that on some level. And he's also totally surprised by the "there's no such thing as someone who shouldn't love anyone". I don't think he believes her, definitely not right away, but I think it left a mark.

[q99.livejournal.com]

"Maybe even non-existent"?

Azula x Azula :)

[elle-white.livejournal.com]

Azula/Ty Lee?

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

*blinks*

you want me to talk about just Azula, or, I dunno, there's some alternate version of Azula that's relevant for the discussion?

[q99.livejournal.com]

Like, imagine she got magically split somehow or otherwise was in a position where she could be shipped with her exact duplicate ^^

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

I find Seishirou and Hokuto's relationship so damn interesting. And like everything else in the series, it's worth a close look. Because, right from the get-go, Hokuto was pushing him and he was cheerfully letting her, though at some point he really did get under his skin without him even realizing it, in a much different way than Subaru did. Although Subaru was his downfall, without Hokuto, I'm not even sure if he would have realized it. Hokuto put things into his head Subaru or his mother never would have been able to.

I feel like Tokyo Babylon is a story that has a trio where the relationships between all three characters is fairly evenly developed. Of course, Hokuto/Subaru and Seishirou/Subaru were focused on more as it was Subaru's story, but Hokuto and Seishirou weren't shoved into the background. They played a pivotal role in Tokyo Babylon's story and in the conclusion of Seishirou and Subaru's story in X.

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

SEISHIROU/SUBARU.

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Harry Dresden/Karrin Murphy.

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

Jon/Dany :P

[flo-nelja.livejournal.com]

Non, non, je ne te contredirai pas sur ça. :-)

♥ aussi. :-)

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

platonic Renee+Victor. with bonus emphasis on the platonic.

or Bruce/Jason. because I should be writing them.

[hamsterwoman]

Miles and Galeni (platonic or otherwise, up to you)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... a quick death for however is slowest?

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I like them, they have an interesting dynamic. I can believe Ty Lee does like Azula to some amount, that it isn't just fear, though there's also a lot of that, which makes things verrrrry complicated. But yeah, Ty Lee isn't just a ditz, and it's interesting that she actually knows how to play Azula pretty well overall, with her sycophantness; which makes it tough to determine how much of it is genuine. But I totally can believe that Azula's jealousy during The Beach was somewhat genuine. And their little playacting was definitly the hotness ♥

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... I don't even read the Harry Dresden series. I tried it and it sucked so I gave up on it.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

*TAKES BIG SPORK* THIS PAIRING IS STOOPID AND MAKES NO SENSE. It's all about the speshialness of the Targaryens and we need to keep them fatedly incestuous with one another or something, seriously, how stupid must be the shippers to think that's a good idea? why do people buy into that junk???!!! ARGHNESS.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I still love them; they're still, like, the closest thing to my platonic shippy ideal, but I think a lot of glamour is gone away from me. I still love the way it weaves interesting motifs and themes - communication, alienation, non dualism etc. - but in terms of the characters themselves, and their dynamic, I don't think I'm as interested as I used to be. Though I still love reading about them written by good writers like you ^^

I think that's in part because I've read too many bad yaoi manga in the last couple of years; and I got burned out in some of the most ridiculous seme/uke dynamics and the ways they are often problematic without being problematized by the text - which of course, in the manga itself, it's much more complicated and deconstructed than that; which makes it great, but makes it harder for me to care all that much anymore. The funny thing is Sei/Sub predate most of those mangas. I guess that makes them like Ayanami Rei in a way XD

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

For me, the way that a lot of yaoi manga is shallow with its power dynamics is probably why I stay so interested in Seishirou/Subaru. Because very few things feed into my power dynamic kink so much.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

*grins* that's why I've moved away from yaoi manga recently.

Did you ever read the Administration series? It's original slash in a dystopic setting that is handled in a pretty low key way, revolving around a sociopath investigator and professional torturer and a virtual reality designer; and it had some of the most brilliant power dynamic I've seen in a very long time.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yes, you're absolutely right; great thoughts!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Renée and Victor have some really great banter / friendship in 52 that was really - well that was kind of the only thing I liked in the series XD but it was great. I love Vic's smartassness, he's got a kind of easy going snarkiness I really adore. It was funny seeing him first riling Renée up; then her getting used to it, and snarking back in her own way. ♥

Also yeah, I loved how quickly they grew to be comfortable with one another, and totally BFF. It's so rare to see a Male + Female friendship without hint of romance; so that was nice; and it felt very organic to the characters as well.

I love Renée as the Question, but I'm almost disappointed Vic had to die for her to become that because that means no more of that banter! :D

[misstopia.livejournal.com]

ARGHNESS! I agree totally :)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

So there's Bruce. I kind of think he's a dick, mostly, but maybe it's cuz he's such an iconic character I can't really relate with him as, you know, a character rather than an icon.

And there's Jason. I've heard about him a lot. He shows up lots on tumblr when I do the newsletter edition, and usually seem pretty hot and fun. I have a friend who commented that fanart!Jason was interesting and funny; unlike canon!Jason who is a twit or something. The Jason fans in general seem extremely motivated! Which is kind of fascinating in itself. And from what I heard there's a whole variety of ways canon has screwed up with him which makes me root for him/them in a way because of that underdog thing. Plus in those fanart, he's usually pretty hot :)
The closest thing to something with Jason i've read as yet was an issue where he was a ghost/memory of Dick during No Man's Land. He was rather endearingly brattish in that.

I've yet to read anything where both Bruce and Jason interact with one another, unless you count that couple of pages on scans_daily about a recent issue; but all I remember from that was how much of it devolved around whether or not redheads are true victims of oppression.
Theoretically, I kind of draw a line at parent/children dynamics when shipping. I don't have many squicks, but that does tend to make me uncomfortable; even when I actually do see some chemistry (see my reaction to reading Cass' Batgirl series and her amazing chemistry with not one, not two, but all three of her main parental figures! Okay, not with Babs; that's something I guess, though I was seeing that more as a big sister/younger sister relationship tbh - I disgress). Then again, I tend to loooooooooooooooooove antagonistic relationship with former love turned bitter with feelings of betrayal and shit like that; so, well, you know.

I can't believe I managed to say so much about a ship i've never even read anything with in canon. -_-

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

I haven't, no. Are there any girls? (Also great with TB is the female influence)

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

The Renée+Victor is pretty much all I remember from 52. Trufax. I think what I like best about it is that they're both so film noir-ish - or at least the situation is, and Renée is, at Victor very much enters her story in a noir way - and then they're not anymore, but it's not jarring. It feels natural.

totally BFF
Yeah.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

There are several secondary female characters. They're secondary, but I love several of them?

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

Can I have a link?

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

Bruce is definitely kind of dickish, but the universe makes it such a point of making sure the guy never gets nice things that I kind of like that about him. It's my weakness for dorkish fools-for-love who make everything more complicated for themselves and who are astonishingly idealistic.

Haha, I started the same way with Jason. The underdog thing. And the author-set-out-to-get-him-killed, too. Canon!Jason is... well. He's the Robin Spirit (how brain-breaking is it that when Dick, the original Robin, hallucinates Robin, he sees Jason?) and The Event that firmly pushed Bruce into Not Letting Anyone Get Close Ever Again Ever territory. And as a character, post-return, he's an Anti Villain. Sympathetic, but wrong.

As a Jason fan, I think it's pretty easy to get motivated for him; like Cass, he hasn't really been in enough things for his ideally-written-self to get dissolved. Like Cass, he's been mistreated so badly that it's not very hard either to realize where OOC happens and be indignant about it.

pretty hot and fun
and as camp as something very camp. >_> When well-written.

I've yet to read anything where both Bruce and Jason interact with one another
*refrains from launching link to the Big Damn Bruce/Jason canon scan post of doom at you* *it's very hard, jsyk*

I don't really see Cass' thing for Bruce as chemistry. I think she wants to be him too much to want to do him. (She might be willing to do Robin because Batman has this thing for Robin. And when I say Robin I mostly mean Steph, due to Tim being a tiny Batling and Steph being very much the Robin type. Steph is like a mix of Dick and Jason.) And also I am so glad that someone else is not seeing the Babs/Cass.

antagonistic relationship with former love turned bitter with feelings of betrayal and shit like that; so, well, you know.
*nods sagely* Bruce/Jason: OTP of DOOOOM and TRAINWRECK.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

http://www.mannazone.org/zone/admin/index.html

hope you enjoy! :)

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

goddammit I definitely did NOT MEAN to be THAT longwinded.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Miles and Galeni have a very interesting relationship, I think actually, it might be one of the few male character I could eventually ship Miles with.
What's interesting with them, on first level, is how much they're both... the sons of their father. Which of course means some very radically different things for either (Miles being deadly afraid of disappointing Aral, Galen has long resigned himself he will never not!disappoint Galen and set out to do something completely different and opposite to him), but totally shape who they are and who they try to be, and because of that, they, ironically, can relate with one another more than they can with most people. They actually understand that ridiculous weight that wraps the other's whole life - that understanding is pretty much the first reaction they have to one another.
Then in terms of personality, they're also pretty fun to see together. Miles' expensive, chaotic, improvisational style is well balanced by Galeni's more up-tight, methodical and low key personality. Even their sense of humour mesh pretty well together :3 Galeni spent his whole life trying to fit in, trying not to be too obvious, so Miles' going in and being all... imposing as he does, and forcing Galeni along behind him as well is interesting.
Then there's the bit in Memory where Galeni yells at Miles because of the whole Gregor-stole-his-would-be-girlfriend thing, and Miles realising that he did so because Miles was the only person he could lash out that way at, and I always felt very "d'awwww" about. It'd be cute to see them talking to one another more intimately in that aftermath - I don't remember the book ever actually going there after it, I could be wrong - and actually, you'd want to make an A/U from there where Miles and Galeni have drunken sex and then perhaps hook up; I think it could work and be an interesting story (and God, would that make Barrayar go crazy XD)

[a-white-rain.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

[hamsterwoman]

I "naturally" ship Miles with Gregor (it only just occurred to me that it's probably because it's simply the slash version of the queen + knight/courtier type ship that I normally go for; bonds of duty and differences in station and all that. Anyway!) but Miles and Galeni is the only other slash ship I can see for Miles.

Really enjoyed everything you had to say about it! You're right about the shared understanding of what being their fathers' sons is like, though they do very different things with theirs, and how well they contrast and play off each other in personality.

It'd be cute to see them talking to one another more intimately in that aftermath - I don't remember the book ever actually going there after it,

I don't think it did, either -- that would be a very neat conversation!

and actually, you'd want to make an A/U from there where Miles and Galeni have drunken sex and then perhaps hook up; I think it could work and be an interesting story

They're both kind of at low points right after that (and before Delia swoops down on Duv), and I could easily see Miles getting bewilderingly drunk once the worst was past and Galeni, pushed past the point of composure, going along with it. I wonder if anyone has written that!

[redbrunja.livejournal.com]

Oh, sorry! I noticed it in your tags and didn't realize you didn't enjoy it.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

haha good point on the film noir-ish thing. I do love that vibe.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

It's my weakness for dorkish fools-for-love who make everything more complicated for themselves and who are astonishingly idealistic.
Yeah, I could probably appreciate that if not for the whole iconic factor.

how brain-breaking is it that when Dick, the original Robin, hallucinates Robin, he sees Jason?
well, he wasn't going to hallucinate himself?

As a Jason fan, I think it's pretty easy to get motivated for him; like Cass, he hasn't really been in enough things for his ideally-written-self to get dissolved. Like Cass, he's been mistreated so badly that it's not very hard either to realize where OOC happens and be indignant about it.
That makes sense.

and as camp as something very camp. >_> When well-written.
LoL, is he? XD

*refrains from launching link to the Big Damn Bruce/Jason canon scan post of doom at you* *it's very hard, jsyk*
I'd prefer comics recs.

I don't really see Cass' thing for Bruce as chemistry. I think she wants to be him too much to want to do him.
I didn't mean it in term of her wanting to do him... I dunno how to explain. It's just interaction I find interesting and compelling and hot? Except not because then I squick myself XD But she had more with both her biological parents anyway.

She might be willing to do Robin because Batman has this thing for Robin.
LOL I hadn't thought of it like that.

Steph is like a mix of Dick and Jason.
Ooh, that's a fun way to think of Steph, I like it.

And also I am so glad that someone else is not seeing the Babs/Cass.<.i>
Do people ship them usually? O_o

I don't even know who I'd ship with Babs actually. I don't see much chemistry with many people asides from the canonical with Dick which never ends well.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... hehehe.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

... I put in a prompt for it a the multifandom kinkmeme... will see if that gives us anything! :D

[hamsterwoman]

Ooh, I hope it does! (I think I've read one Miles/Galeni, set during The Vor Game while they're both held captive by Galen -- I guess it's the sort of pairing that calls out for hurt/comfort? -- but there doesn't seem to be much else out there, so I hope the kinkmeme yields more!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

do you have a link to that one? I don't remember if i've read it.

yup let's hope :)

[hamsterwoman]

Ah, here we go -- it was one of the Yuletide crop a couple of years back. Just reread it, and I can definitely see the Miles side of it anyway.

[runespoor7.livejournal.com]

well, he wasn't going to hallucinate himself?
This is comics canon and hallucinations. He could've totally hallucinated 12-year-old!just-became-Robin!Dick. Or he could've hallucinated the then-current Robin. But no, had to be the Robin who'd never grow up, the Robin who'd never stop being Robin.

Specifically Bruce/Jason comics recs or just about any comics rec?
Batman: Gotham Knights is the Best Series Ever to showcase the Bats as a family, picking up after NML, you just have to drop it after #49.

I'd rec the Brubaker and Rucka years on Batman and Detective Comics, but it might not be entirely to your tastes... Hm. During his run on Detective Comics, Rucka creates an amazing female character named Sacha, and she's the PoV character. Brubaker and Rucka both write a lot about Jim Gordon, and more Jim being awesome and Jim and Bruce being BFF is always welcome as far as I'm concerned.

During those years, there's a three-issue-long Vaughan-penned arc, which is about Bruce's identity issues and in which Dick and Babs play very important parts, and which has lovely Dick/Babs interaction. In case people forgot that Babs tops everything.

I adore the Bruce Wayne: Murderer?/Fugitive storylines. Since they're crossovers they star the other members of the Batfamily. Admittedly not Huntress, but I really like the interaction of the core crew. The consensus is that Bruce is a dick in it, but compared to NML I judge his dickery pretty much non-existent. (I am biased.)

not just Batfamily-centric: Judd Winick's Outsiders. Far from perfect, but generally fun, and genuinely good original characters. You'll have to put up with a few issues of rather OOC Huntress, but it's short and it could be much worse. At least there's funny dialogue.

The canonical Bruce/Jason manifesto: Under the Hood. (which is also the manifesto of Jasonissocamp.)

It's just interaction I find interesting and compelling and hot?
I think I see what you mean. I can't explain it any better, though.

I wouldn't say that people usually ship Babs/Cass, but it's listed on the HoYay page of TVTropes, so apparently someone does. ...And Babs/Steph as well, at which I just throw my arms in the air. (Seriously, how come everyone sees Babs seriously higher on the Kinsey Scale than I do?)

the canonical with Dick which never ends well.
But... what does that ever have to do with shippability? (does Dinah/Shiva ever end well?) Even when they're broken up, they're shippable. And they do have their happy times, too. You just need to time it right.

As for chemistry, I find that Oracle as opposed to Babs has chemistry with everything. Roy tried to have phonesex with her. (Okay, so he flirted. It totally counts! that happened in the Arsenal mini-series, btw.) Oracle could have chemistry with a rock. I think it's because then, she's in control. Babs doesn't do intimacy well, so she doesn't do flirtation or romance often IRL. She does with Dick, because, well, she's in love with him and maybe more importantly, he takes orders. It lets her pretend that she's in control, even though of the two of them Dick is the only one fooled.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

and there were much rejoycing: http://multikinkmemes.dreamwidth.org/2231.html?thread=129207#cmt129207

thanks for the link, off to read this one :D

[hamsterwoman]

Hooray! :D
*off to read*