reading aDwD part 8

[salinea]

Up to the ending

Cersei II
Petyr asked for Sansa to wed as early as CoK. >_>; Petyr you're just... XD

And there's our Gregorstein. I'm sure the Dornishmen will think only good things of him.

Tyrion XII
Sellsword Tyrion! And what you gonna plan?

Barristan III
"The Prince of Dragonflies loves Jenny of Oldstone, so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses."

All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had himself followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies where he might have had fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and frief.
Pieces of puzzle!

Quentyn IV
Poor Quentyn :(

Jon XIII
ARGH another leal. KILL IT KILL IT WITH FIRE. wait not fire, wrong timing.

.... well that was unexpected. o_o Can Jon be dead, really? I'd be surprised - but. Perhaps Melisandre will revive with the flame of Rh'llor. That'd make some sort of sense.Barris

I do wonder how much truth Ramsay told in that letter either.

Barristan IV
Poor Quentyn :(((

Daenarys X
*sighs* There's my Daenarys. I can't even remember who Khal Jaqho is. I do need a full reread. After.

Epilogue
*squee* a reference to Balerion the cat.

You shouldn't have threatened the cat Kevan, that's why you die :p

Varys is such a polite murderer; perhaps he was trained amongst the Sorry Men XD


This was almost as slow and meandering as FFC, if not quite so annoying to read (thanks to the lack of Cersei). Too much set up, too much set backs, and too little pay off - though there were also a lot of good parts (and quite a few twists). For a book called "Dance with Dragon" it had wayyyy too little Daenarys being awesome. It compensated by having Jon being awesome a lot, though that didn't earn him anything good (lol). Theon's story was probably the one which I was the most engaged in - which, while I've always liked him as a character, wasn't quite expected. Also way too little Davos, and way too little Bran >_> I'm not yet convinced scraping the five years gap was the right idea, you know.

Comments

[werthead.livejournal.com]

Khal Jhaqo was one of Drogo's bloodriders. He ran off with part of Drogo's khalasar after Drogo died. IIRC, he was okay towards Dany but may be cheesed off over the whole Mirri Maz Duur thing. On the other hand, Dany has a dragon named after Drogo with her, which should impress even the Dothraki :-)

Yeah, I agree on the lack of resolution. In particular I think some earlier parts needed to be condensed and the actual ending of the Meereen situation moved up. In fact, whilst it's nice on one level that GRRM resolved the AFFC cliffhangers, I do wonder if he could simply have dropped all of them back to Book 6 and had the battle at Meereen and gotten Dany back off to Westeros. I think that decision could be pivotal on if the series stays at 7 books or grows to 8.

Did you notice the Frey-Baked Pie and the fact that Theon and Varys may now have something in common? I totally missed the latter until someone pointed it out on Westeros, then my eyes started watering :-O

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

thanks!

Yeah, being quicker to the start, and having more climaxed at the end would have helped the book along nicely. Jon's the only storyline with a real climax, and it's a rather depressing one (until the rebirth). Some stuff that also fill the reader with hope would have helped as well (well Theon & Jeyne are also outside of Ramsey's hands, so that's another resolution which is hopeful; but we don't even know where they are, and current situation at Winterfell is very unclear).

In fact, whilst it's nice on one level that GRRM resolved the AFFC cliffhangers
Did he? Seems to me like those characters are still hanging off the cliff; they've just climbed a little bit higher above it, but not on firm ground yet. Like we've moved from "omg, what will Brienne choses!" to "OMG what will happen to Jaime?!"

Did you notice the Frey-Baked Pie
I hadn't. Seen many people comment on it since; starting with yourself :p
It's gruesomely delicious :D

and the fact that Theon and Varys may now have something in common
Someone doing a live blogging commented on it early on while I was in the middle of my own reading.

then my eyes started watering :-O
Martin didn't pull many punches with Theon. He's an excellent horror writer actually.

I also missed how many stuff in Jon's death worked for the Azor Ahai prophecy! And that Quentyn's death may be one of the sign that one day Dany will be fertile again! (though I took her bleeding in her last chapter for a miscarriage upon my reading. Was surprised to see some people interpreting it as the white mare)

[werthead.livejournal.com]

"Did he? Seems to me like those characters are still hanging off the cliff; they've just climbed a little bit higher above it, but not on firm ground yet."

True. He resolved the AFFC cliffhangers just to give them new ones. Whether that's better or not than just leaving them is debateable, but it gives us something different to talk about for the next 3/6/27 years :-)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I don't think it counts as "resolving" when the crisis they face is still essentially the same, just seen from a slightly different perspective.

but it gives us something different to talk about for the next 3/6/27 years :-)
Hmmmm we'll see. I don't find myself having that many things to talk about for now, but perhaps more will unfold after some reflection and more attention paid to details (I'm not very good at spotting things ^^)

[novin-ha.livejournal.com]

I am so unhappy about the number of cliffhangers (too many Presumed Deads and MIAs) and about Kevan's death, because I really liked him...

I started to like Jon, and I'm more firmly in camp Tywin is awesome now (he's mentioned in that book every five pages... more than Rhaegar XD) and I started to ship Sansa/Petyr Baelish on my re-read so that mention was just... idek.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I also started to like Jon. Feels weird. I'm not a big fan of Tywin though (or Kevan, though I think they're both good characters).

LOL. I love Petyr but he's very creepyskeevy.

[novin-ha.livejournal.com]

This year has been a sequence of being forced to work with very incompetent, disorganised people, so the opposites have become increasingly valuable to me. Tywin Lannister was a go-getter! XD

Petyr sure is creepy. But who says I only have to like and ship good fictional characters ;D

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

That's true enough about Tywin.


Yeah, I was commenting/mocking Petyr's creepiness; that doesn't mean I don't love him. It's just, I don't give characters a pass on their skeeviness just because I love them.

[luzisrighthand.livejournal.com]

I found the book rather entertaining. I'm looking forward to the next book although I will be past 30 when it comes out I think. :D

"Of course they had to kill Lord Snow while I was still alive. 'Edd' his voice said to me in a dream. 'You must kill all the traitors'. It took days to get the bloodstains out of my smallclothes.
Now they tell me his corpse has started to talk and demands to see me, he probably wants a larger gravestone and more worms. I should not have complained about the turnips, the turnip god must have been listening.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I thought it was a bit underwhelming, though I definitely enjoyed myself reading it :)

hahaha you do Edd's voice well XD

[luzisrighthand.livejournal.com]

Well Edd is the MAN.:p

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

He always was.

[scriva.livejournal.com]

I found reading the book entertaining, however, it's structure as a book that should be a bit more than just a transition within a series is a bit problematic.

I liked the chapters for Theon, Jon, Bran, Davos, Arya and Jon Connington best, mostly for what the characters did than for the advancing of the plot. I did like Dany's chapters as well, but they felt a bit overstuffed at times. I also tink that GRRM might have tried to counter the criticism that the Eastern settings are too orientalist, but the non-Westerosi characters feel a bit empty excpt for a few.

In addition, it was a bit annoying that the trope of "unfit female ruler" is now pretty overwhelming for AFFC and ADWD, and it will also mean more Dany bashing in the next years. *sigh* It also would have helped if the relationship between Dany and Daario had not been so eerily similary to that of Asha and Qart (including the wording in parts of the sex scene).

However, on the whole, I really liked reading the book, even the chapters I found a bit dragging or for which the pay-off was pretty depressing (i. e. Quentin).

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with you. The book is badly structured, and it increases the issues with sexism in the book. Ranted about it to Teresa, might as well post it here:
I'm very pissed off on the women front. I barely could stood all the misogyny that Cersei's PoV chapters was in FFC, but it had other female PoV better built to compensate. But this book makes it so much worse. Dany fails very badly as a ruler - though at least it offsets the White Saviour thing; but the Orientalism continues so the subversion isn't that great; and then Barristan, the white honourable male who can do no wrong takes over, and while his action may lead to disaster (we've yet to see) at least he's active. Meanwhile Jon does a lot of stuff, most of which I was impressed with, despite it leading him to disaster as well - but he seems to be framed as Azor Ahai which kind of pisses me off if that ends up the case.
Daenarys' infatuation for Daario was definitly written in a pretty stupid and annoying way - full of bad, bad clichés. Asha's playacting rape with her lover in her first chapter made me want to throw the book at a wall, it's got a lot of the similar clichés : strong women like strong men who manhandle her!!! *ARGH* Plus the wildling women usually speaking in those sort of terms as well. And Cersei's bodyshaming as a bringing down the uppity bitch is absolutly disgusting.
Then you got the subtler stuff; the way Jeyne is a token damsel to built up Theon's redemptive arc, and she has no agency of her own (though Theon himself is in great part saved by female characters, who comment on the way they are underestimated; but they in turn work for manly dashing Mance!). Penny plays a similar role to Tyrion. Thank god he's got a weaker, stupider female character, less lucky than he was, to rescue and thus helps himself out of self-destructive self-pity by showing him how worse off he could be! And of course there's Ramsay Bolton hunting women and then naming his bitches after them; and poor Jeyne Pool in general.

There are a lot of cool minor female characters, Val, Alys, the two widows; but they're just... it isn't their story. They're just there to provide exposition or advance the plot of the male characters.

So yeah, I'm starting to think of those books as fairly misogynistic, rather than as mixed results with good intention undermined by lack of awareness.


I did enjoy reading the book though, but I'm not sure that's all that meaningful given my emotional involvement with the series for the last 10 years & some :)

[novin-ha.livejournal.com]

What you said, sadly :(

[ambyr.livejournal.com]

Asha's playacting rape with her lover in her first chapter made me want to throw the book at a wall

Oh God yes. I was sitting on the edge of a cliff while I was reading that scene (took the book hiking with me), and I had to put the book down very carefully for a couple minutes so I wouldn't toss it over the edge. What the hell was the point of it? To establish that every female character in Westeros/Essos has rape fantasies?

Dear Martin: please leave random kink scenes to fanfic writers and focus your attention on the plot. You don't have the words to spare if you're going to finish this in seven books--and they write women-centric sex scenes a hell of a lot better than you.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

leave sex scene out altogether, it's not like you write any of them well -_-

[ambyr.livejournal.com]

I. . .cannot argue. But I mind the male-POV ones a lot less, because there's not the cognitive dissonance of "why is a woman looking at this scene through the male gaze?"

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

lol yeah, I see what you mean.