(no subject)

[salinea]

I knew I shouldn't have gotten involved in that new fanfic thread on Ran's Board. I knew it. Fuck. Getting pissed off now.

Comments

[strangerface.livejournal.com]

I"m afraid to even click it. But I can imagine waht it says. *hugs*

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

but there are so many different ways to bash fanfics! </ sarcasm>

[curtana.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'll click that link, for the sake of my blood pressure >_< Is anyone else defending it, at least?

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yes, actually. And not everyone is stupid. It's just... the mass of people who know nothing about fanfics yet feel like they're entitled to judge whether it's right or not pisses me off. Also I already got called not a decent human being, selfish, solipsist and intellectually dishonest for being a fanfic writer who doesn't care about GRRM's authorisation or lack thereof.

[apapazukamori.livejournal.com]

Ugh, people who wave the anti-fanfic banner drive me nuts with their holier-than-thou attitudes. Any published author (especially in the fantasy/sci-fi genres) who has fanfiction written about their works probably already knows about it. Or, at least, any writer with a web presence. You can't not know.

Fans should leave "protecting" the author to the author's agent, publishing company, lawyers and the author him/herself. If the author has a problem with it, the fans will absolutely find out about it. In the meantime, the fic-bashers should just stfu. (And stop bringing up Marion Zimmer Bradley. That was one author and one batshit fan. Has it happened since then to any author that permits fanfic? I'm guessing it hasn't. Exception does not make the rule!)

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

The thing is, in that particular fandom, people are especially paranoid and tend to flock a lot because of the attitude of the rest of the fandom. Which annoys me, because I hate having to join stuff to read them and be secretive.

Has it happened since then to any author that permits fanfic?
We would know if it had. And even that case was really particular.

[sakanagi.livejournal.com]

So it is suddenly a 'low' and terrible crime to not respect the wishes of the author? Huh. I didn't know that reading something was the same as entering into a contract to never disagree with the writer! Think about all the critical book reviewers who don't even know what they're doing is wrong. :p

I am surprised by some of the people on that board who are willing to talk in definite terms about matters they don't fully understand. Particularly concerning the legal aspects.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Indeed. Signed in blood, I will always agree with GRRM in all moral and political issues, in exchange for one volume of Feast For Crow. WTF.

I am surprised by some of the people on that board who are willing to talk in definite terms about matters they don't fully understand. Particularly concerning the legal aspects.
LOL You've no idea, it's something of a tradition on that board. About all kinds of issues. Although a fair number of them are lawyers, so.

[novin-ha.livejournal.com]

It's these moments when I honestly think some people need to hear that THE AUTHOR IS DEAD.

Deal. No one outside your purist circle cares about the one proper representation anymore, and the moment you release your characters to the world, you're going to have them interpreted in 1000 different ways - including those you'd vehemently oppose. Fanfic is just an extension of that; world no longer simple and ruled by one man's interpretation. Text is living and breathing, and created by its readers as much as writers. It's a community and a process and

Now I'm getting pissed off too and i only read a couple of comments in the thread ;)

:;hugs::

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

It's these moments when I honestly think some people need to hear that THE AUTHOR IS DEAD.
LOL I TOLD THEM THAT! That's how I got called solipsist and selfish (I think he really meant self entitled, whatever).

And so much agreement about the interpreted a 1000 different ways. That's what art and culture is damnit. Stop wanting to control everything, people. You can't control other people's imagination.

*hugs*

[rebbe]

Reading this makes me feel slightly paranoid about getting attacked D:

I think I'll go add blinking disclaimers to all of my fics now.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

oh, no, please, don't feel paranoid, I don't like when people are paranoid ;è;. It's a book fandom anyway, not something to fear in your fandom :)

[catrionamacnair.livejournal.com]

*never understood the fanfiction hate in the first place* Somehow, 'don't like don't read' doesn't seem to work on the internet for some reason :(

Instead, I might start a thread ranting about popstars and rappers using pieces of classical music in their songs. OMGS fanmusic! Abominable!

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

but GRRM said he didn't want fanfics, therefore fanfics should be banned! Otherwise it's total disrespect for GRRM x_x; because you can't respect GRRM and disagree with him.

Haha, yeah, I like the comparison.

[xraytheenforcer.livejournal.com]

Hmm - I wasn't going to get involved, because I have no horse in the race. I don't have a problem with fanfic.

At the same time, I do think that respecting the wishes of the author around whose work the board is based is a smart move on Ran's part. But that sure as shit does not mean I'm going to track fanfic down across the net and stamp it out because GRRM doesn't like it. That's just absurd, and it also goes against my general take on life.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

I have absolutely no problem with the board's policy about fanfics. It's his board, his decision in any case, and I agree it's a smart move given how close to GRRM he is.

I'm only ranting about the stupidity of some of the people in the discussion, and because those discussions happening regularly have caused the paranoia of ASOIAF ficcers when they post on LJ. Apparently, they do believe they're going to get hunted down. (and I believe at least once Ran posted to a LJ community to say how they shouldn't be writing fanfics because GRRM said no which, yeah, no his board, not his decision to make).

[the-corbie.livejournal.com]

Well, for that matter GRRM himself doesn't have such a problem with fanfic that he would track it down and stamp it out. The entire extent of his reaction has been to say that a) he would rather fans didn't write it, b) he thinks it can potentially create legal issues for creators, and c) he doesn't think it's a good training ground if you want to be a pro. You might disagree with those points, but it's not like he's on a crusade against it or has asked anyone to swear in blood or any other liquid not to do it.

I don't have any issues with fanfic either, really, although I do think it's technically correct to say it infringes legal rights. But then so does downloading illegal music (which we also forbid mention of on the board, despite the fact that some of those banning it actually do it: just because we forbid something on the board doesn't mean we HATES it. ;))

[matitablu.livejournal.com]

Same old, same old, huh? I don't know whether I have to laugh or cry when I see what I call "GRRM's talibans". But I wonder, actually - they are very vocal and active (hey, Ran actually showing up at sane_asoiaf_fan! *shivers*), but how many fans do they represent? I still think that

a) most part of the readers of any book simply doesn't know what fanfiction is. They read the book, put it on the shelf, and they're done with it.
b) those who know what fanfic is, most of the time simply write fic, and then they're done with it. They loved the story enough to write about it, but didn't go check every single interview - bio - whatever concerning the author.

For instance, some of my fellow Italian ficcers have been posting ASoIaF fic here on LJ after reading the books for the first time. When I mentioned (or better, ranted against) GRRM's opinion on fic, they didn't know about that. They simply made the book->fic path like with... anything else that's ficcable. So it sort of makes me laugh this between-the-lines assumption from the fic bashers that "OMG THEY'RE DAMAGING THE AUTHOR!1!11ONE111" as if there was some vicious intent behind it. Besides, I'd like to ask how many of these fierce fic opponents *don't* donwload music from the internet or copy friends' cds. Now, that's copyright infringment if you ask me, given that I'm not likely ot buy a cd I already downloaded for free, while I'll definitely buy a book that had good fic about it! That's why 99,9% of the authors tolerate fic: in the end, it's free promotion for their original work.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

how many fans do they represent? Well given how much a bestseller the books are, I think not only does the vast majority not give a shit but the vast majority isn't even aware this is an issue. XD

I don't see how fanfic hurt the writer either. If the writer does read fanfics, yes it can be a problem, but otherwise? Can't imagine it.

[generalblossom.livejournal.com]

Well, you made me go look. Though not at all yet, and it´s a muddle. I will probably post something, when I manage to read the whole thing because I got something to say, and that I think people got the whys, and shoulds, and legality/morality all mixed up. But I warn you, my opinions will probably not be at all popular in LJ land ;), because I do think some of the arguments of authors which object have moral validity - and I got some quibbles about a few things.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

heh, you're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to thinking it's wrong ;) though I only think you disagree with the LJ crowd because most of the LJ crowd like Sansa XD

[scriva.livejournal.com]

I just read parts of the discussion, and Enguerrant and Eloisa said almost everything I would have to say in that matter. So, there is not much left to say.

I can not see fanfic as a copyright violation, because the writers do not make money from it. *shrug*

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

yeah, they said some very smart thing.

To me it's not only a question of money, it's also the fact they tell their own story with it, it's not entirely about what they use as material. It's the validity of fanfic as an artistic medium, I guess.

[werthead.livejournal.com]

Interesting thread. I think Ran made a couple of questionable comments (has any fanfic ever been mistaken for a real story, ever?), although given that the board benefits somewhat from the 'semi-official', approved by GRRM tag, it's understandable he'd err on the side of caution.

The differences he cites between RPGs and fanfic seem to be non-existent to me.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

The differences he cites between RPGs and fanfic seem to be non-existent to me.
I definitely think they belong to the same continuum. Pet theory since 2006 ^^

[williamjm.livejournal.com]

I've never really read fanfiction so I don't feel that strongly about the discussion, but I've never really understood why some people do think it is so harmful. I do understand the argument that in some cases it could be problematic for the author but those cases are so rare (the MZB case is always cited, presumably because it's just about the only example most people have heard of) it seems a bit of an over-reaction to condemn such a large community of writers just because of those rare cases especially when there are far more dangerous forms of copyright infringement out there (it isn't exactly hard to find ebooks for download of GRRM's books, for example).

I got a bit bored and didn't read the whole thread. I think the best bit was the suggestion that the original author disapproved of the film of Troy which seems chronologically unlikely ;)

[werthead.livejournal.com]

The Babylon 5 example is brought up as well, but it's not the same thing at all. Someone just mentioned on a message board that JMS actually posted on regularly something along the lines that, "Hey, you could have an episode in which one character finds out they've been mindwiped in the past for crimes they don't remember, and the relatives of the victim come after him." JMS was independently writing 'Passing Through Gethsemane' at the time and then had to get the OP to sign a legal waiver to confirm that he wouldn't sue JMS for stealing his idea.

I think this issue is precisely why GRRM doesn't visit the board, so he can avoid similar problems.

[jesatria.livejournal.com]

Over here from strangerface's lj.

Just spare yourself the headdesking. I don't even post there anymore & don't miss the repeated headdesking at all. My world is a better place without seeing people turning Jon into the biggest Gary Stu on the face of the planet.

BTW, I'm friending you, if that is ok.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Hi! Nice to meet you! I love getting new friends!

[solesakuma]

They may be under the authority of their parents, their school, and sexually repressed by the need to not get pregnant while at school, but in fanfic they can run wild.
What. The. Fuck.

What if that backstory contradicts background the author has worked out in their head, but did not intend to publish, for example?
...
Nothing? Well, maybe wank if the author ever talks about but...

[solesakuma]

If the author does not matter and is just the lector of material floating around in the intertextual sea, then the only person who matters is . . . the reader.
Exactly!. That's the point! I can't know what went through Jane Austen's head while writing Pride & Prejudice. I can, however, tell what went running through my own.
I find author-oriented critic works to be quite pretentious, actually. >.<
Reader response is just, IMO, a lot more verifiable.